is there a connection between severe depression and a woman's menstral cycle?

[steph]

I have been dealing with depression for about 8 years now. It seems i have "phases" where i will be normal but then i will have what i call a "dark cloud over my head" where everything seems to be going wrong even though i know it isn't. Right now i have a 3 year old, a great job, i just got more hours and reassigned to a position i like better. The only thing is that me and my boyfriend fight all the time and i think it may be because of me. That because i get so depressed i retaliate against him thinking he was insulting me. I have also noticed that i am usually fine excpet for right before my period. I know that pms can cause slight depression, but this is severe and it usually starts about a week before and doesnt end until a few days after i have my period. It messes up my sleepings habits, throws my melatonin levels all out of sorts, decreasing my apetite and making me irratable to the point no one wants anything to do with me and all i can think about it is suicide. I will add that i am smart enough not to go through with it now that i have kids, but i made several attempts when i was a teenager.

I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or not severe depression could be linked to a woman's menstral cycle. It kind of makes sense, but not to this degree. I have personally never seen or heard anything like this. Has anyone else?

 

[Soapy Sam]

It often depressed me. (I'm male).
Have you tried asking your doctor for something to suppress the cycle ( I mean more specific than birth control pills) to see if these effects decrease?

 

[bpesta22]

This may be too unrelated but I know there are links to being on the cycle and performance on various cognitive ability tests. Generally math and spatial test scores go down at peak flow while verbal stuff increase; so too does perceptual sensitivity-- which may be a link to depression?

If interested, I can dig up the cites.

 

[rjh01]

I have heard about it. It is called PMS for short. It is a matter of dispute if it is real or not. I suggest at least you keep a diary of your moods and when your periods are.

Edit. References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_syndrome
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/premenstrual_syndrome?open

 

[Fiona]

I have heard about it. It is called PMS for short. It is a matter of dispute if it is real or not. I suggest at least you keep a diary of your moods and when your periods are.

I did not know there was any dispute about that: that astonishes me. Can you link? I have absolutely no doubt that menstruation affects mood (and not for the better) in some women: and it seems to me to be likely that that effect will be normally distributed. It might not be but I see no reason to assume that a priori. If it is normally distributed then some will be at the extremes and so severe symptoms would be expected, would they not?

 

[rjh01]

I did not know there was any dispute about that: that astonishes me. Can you link? I have absolutely no doubt that menstruation affects mood (and not for the better) in some women: and it seems to me to be likely that that effect will be normally distributed. It might not be but I see no reason to assume that a priori. If it is normally distributed then some will be at the extremes and so severe symptoms would be expected, would they not?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=b2152619bbd9b2e4e52896f164e8a288

However, despite 58 years of scientific research, fundamental questions remain unanswered. For example, there is still no consensus on the definition of PMS. This, in turn, has led to disagreement among researchers about which medical specialty is best suited for diagnosing and treating PMS. Is PMS a disease whose pathology is best understood by physicians in reproductive medicine or in psychiatry?
This paper argues that the inconclusiveness surrounding PMS is symptomatic of the persistence of cultural beliefs in the production (and reproduction) of medical knowledge.

There is lots written about the subject. The above is just so that you know that the possibility that not everything may be as things appear.

One red flag for me is the long list of possible symptoms of PMS.


Edit. See also confirmation bias

 

[macdoc]

Having to live with a spouse with clinical PMS there is no doubt in my mind or the kids of it's reality...and it was being treated with Prozac in a clinical trial.

In our case it was 2 weeks of normal, 1 week of nicest person in the world, 1 week of family busting hell.....

The reality is solid - defining the boundaries a bit foggy.

In my view PMS tends to strengthen mental/emotional dysfunctions rather than cause them....so indeed it could deepen depression..

Get it treated...

 

[steph]

This may be too unrelated but I know there are links to being on the cycle and performance on various cognitive ability tests. Generally math and spatial test scores go down at peak flow while verbal stuff increase; so too does perceptual sensitivity-- which may be a link to depression?

If interested, I can dig up the cites.

i never heard of it affecting math or spatial scores. that is interesting, next time you get a chance i would love to look at those sites

 

[steph]

I have heard about it. It is called PMS for short. It is a matter of dispute if it is real or not. I suggest at least you keep a diary of your moods and when your periods are.

Edit. References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_syndrome
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/premenstrual_syndrome?open

i know what pms is, i was trying to say that my symptoms are going beyond the usual pms symptoms

 

[steph]

It often depressed me. (I'm male).
Have you tried asking your doctor for something to suppress the cycle ( I mean more specific than birth control pills) to see if these effects decrease?

The only thing they said they could do (i have seen several different doctors and clinics) was prescribe birth control. i have always had irregular periods and flow levels so they thought birth control would level it all out. it didnt. other then that they said that there wasnt anything other then antidepressant, anti anxiety pills and etc.

 

[Dancing David]

I have been dealing with depression for about 8 years now. It seems i have "phases" where i will be normal but then i will have what i call a "dark cloud over my head" where everything seems to be going wrong even though i know it isn't. Right now i have a 3 year old, a great job, i just got more hours and reassigned to a position i like better. The only thing is that me and my boyfriend fight all the time and i think it may be because of me. That because i get so depressed i retaliate against him thinking he was insulting me. I have also noticed that i am usually fine excpet for right before my period. I know that pms can cause slight depression, but this is severe and it usually starts about a week before and doesnt end until a few days after i have my period. It messes up my sleepings habits, throws my melatonin levels all out of sorts, decreasing my apetite and making me irratable to the point no one wants anything to do with me and all i can think about it is suicide. I will add that i am smart enough not to go through with it now that i have kids, but i made several attempts when i was a teenager.

I was just wondering if anyone knew whether or not severe depression could be linked to a woman's menstral cycle. It kind of makes sense, but not to this degree. I have personally never seen or heard anything like this. Has anyone else?

Hi,

Some advise from someone who is not a doctor and has not been a mental health professional for almost five years.

1. Seek help, there are many good self help sources and many bad self help sources.
I personally feel you want to start with professional help, many people do not. Feeling Good by Burns is based upon CBT, it involves tracking, intervention and measurement.
2. Depression is a tricky little bugger, people get used to it. I know from personal experience that 'okay' and 'fine' can really just mean 'not as miserable' and 'less miserable'. So actual tracking and baseline is important.
3. All illnesses are impacted by 'stress' which is a code word for being tired. If you are in a high state of arousal (meaning alertness) for an extended period, doing a lot, missing out on sleep and never have true 'down time', this leads to a state where you physical, emotional and mental resources become depleted. This makes it harder to cope and easier to feel overwhelmed.
4. We all have cycles of living and work, it is normal for there to b cycles of stress and less stress that can cloud any data on the cycles of depression.
5. Yes, there is a strong relationship for some women between their menstrual cycle and depression.PMDD and others.

But just as ins SAD (seasonal affective disorder) it takes considerable tracking and base line measurement to diagnose.

 

[Dancing David]

The only thing they said they could do (i have seen several different doctors and clinics) was prescribe birth control. i have always had irregular periods and flow levels so they thought birth control would level it all out. it didnt. other then that they said that there wasnt anything other then antidepressant, anti anxiety pills and etc.

Well, more free advice that is worth what you pay for.

The treatment of depression is multipronged:
1. Assessment
2. Intervention
3. varieties of Intervention

Now assessment is the crucial part and in what you have described would involve a multi tiered approach medical, psychological and 'life skills'. And in fact when it comes to depression in general and menstrual related events the better the data of tracking and baseline then the better the diagnosis.

But in many cases involving depression full medical work up is always warranted, if it can be afforded and in the cases of menstrual symptoms a work up of the hormones and various regulatory metabolic levels. (Especially the thyroid and estrogen)

Just from the medical stand point is can be hugely complex and often expensive.

Now 'good mental health treatment' involves a 'holistic' or 'biopsychosocial' approach. Unknown to most people this is not new to mental health treatment. So getting a good assessment, working with a professional counselor/therapist and a psychiatrist is often the best way to proceed.

But the crucial part that is often left out is the 'life skills' portion, to be healthy is more than just seeing a doctor and a counselor, it requires a slow progression of change in the life style of the person, getting enough sleep, eating well, getting exercise, a balance between activity and rest, conflict resolution and many many components of life style change.

 

[Dancing David]

I have heard about it. It is called PMS for short.

Dispute, by whom?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=b2152619bbd9b2e4e52896f164e8a288

A paper from 1992, should be interesting!

I looked and guess what, I can't find her bio!

What the heck is Impact Assessment, Inc., La Jolla, CA, USA, really?
as a business, what do they do?

Does she also do research on the impact of the Exxon Valdez?

And why should her opinion from 18 years ago matter?

They are firm that does a lot of subcontracting and it looks like some survey research work?

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/olppp/Documents/Evaluator.pdf
http://www2.co.fresno.ca.us/0110a/Q...5829/AS155846/AI156074/DO156078/DO_156078.PDF
environmental impact studies:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/580683_2

You will find that they are linked to Economic and Commercial research, Educational and Sociological research as well.

But no biographies on Mari Rodin or her credentials.

So how should literature review and survey done on PMS in 1992 impact current research?

 

[Dancing David]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=b2152619bbd9b2e4e52896f164e8a288



There is lots written about the subject. The above is just so that you know that the possibility that not everything may be as things appear.

One red flag for me is the long list of possible symptoms of PMS.


Edit. See also confirmation bias

I suggest that rather than your personal opion and one paper on Science Direct you come here and enter 'premenstrual syndrome'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/pubmed

You will find that besides the usual fluff there is a lot of enzyme on metabolic work on PMS.

 

[steph]

Hi,

Some advise from someone who is not a doctor and has not been a mental health professional for almost five years.

1. Seek help, there are many good self help sources and many bad self help sources.
I personally feel you want to start with professional help, many people do not. Feeling Good by Burns is based upon CBT, it involves tracking, intervention and measurement.
2. Depression is a tricky little bugger, people get used to it. I know from personal experience that 'okay' and 'fine' can really just mean 'not as miserable' and 'less miserable'. So actual tracking and baseline is important.
3. All illnesses are impacted by 'stress' which is a code word for being tired. If you are in a high state of arousal (meaning alertness) for an extended period, doing a lot, missing out on sleep and never have true 'down time', this leads to a state where you physical, emotional and mental resources become depleted. This makes it harder to cope and easier to feel overwhelmed.
4. We all have cycles of living and work, it is normal for there to b cycles of stress and less stress that can cloud any data on the cycles of depression.
5. Yes, there is a strong relationship for some women between their menstrual cycle and depression.PMDD and others.

But just as ins SAD (seasonal affective disorder) it takes considerable tracking and base line measurement to diagnose.

i have already tried proffesional help. i tried therapy, psychiatry and medication. Amazingly the medication worked great until my insurance stopped covering it and it was a $60 monthly expense i couldnt afford.
Also the doctor said i may have to be on it my entire life, and that really kind of made me feel weak and insignificant. The fact that i had to be on medication for to the rest of my life to be "normal", i felt like i failed somehow. It was mostly the money thing that made me stop though. So now i am on the selp help part where i am trying to figure it out for my self.

 

[bpesta22]

Here's just one study, I can dig up more:

http://www.bio.psy.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/papers/CycleMRTmh.pdf

Testosterone seems good for math and spatial skills. I am not expert in monthly cycles, but when estrogen levels are highest, spatial scores go down.

Also, many drug companies have programs where they give meds free to low-income people. My brother is currently getting lipitor free. You should go to the web site that makes your meds and see if you qualify-- assuming you indeed found the meds helpful.

 

[Roma]

Many of the women in my family have PMDD, it is a serious problem that has driven a couple to suicide and has destroyed lives and family relationships.
Back in the old days nothing much was done other than locking them up in psych units or prescribing assorted useless chemical crap to them (like my mom and me).
Today I have a 15 year-old daughter who started becoming homicidal during her PMS, yes I would awake with her standing beside my bed with knives or pillows to kill me, just on those days. Oh I'm sure she has more than just PMDD but at least I could convince the family doctor to prescibe her a birth control pill called Yazmin which helped immediately. She can take it continuously and never have PMDD if she wants to, it's her body and the consequences of not taking it are pretty bad: murder and jail.
This is also one of the approved drugs on the province's welfare drug plan.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Only for the husband...



On a serious note: My mother turns in to a crazy woman when she has PMS. She's literally nuts. She's emotional anyway, but around that time she's dangerous.

My wife had very mild PMS and would just get a little moody, but since she gave birth three years ago, we've both noticed that she goes through a lot more each month.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Many of the women in my family have PMDD, it is a serious problem that has driven a couple to suicide and has destroyed lives and family relationships.
Back in the old days nothing much was done other than locking them up in psych units or prescribing assorted useless chemical crap to them (like my mom and me).
Today I have a 15 year-old daughter who started becoming homicidal during her PMS, yes I would awake with her standing beside my bed with knives or pillows to kill me, just on those days. Oh I'm sure she has more than just PMDD but at least I could convince the family doctor to prescibe her a birth control pill called Yazmin which helped immediately. She can take it continuously and never have PMDD if she wants to, it's her body and the consequences of not taking it are pretty bad: murder and jail.
This is also one of the approved drugs on the province's welfare drug plan.

Do you think it's kind of an 'unspoken problem'?

"I go nuts once a month, help me" doesn't mesh well with the women's independence movement.

Which is stupid, we just need to find a fix like any other chemical problem. It does seem quite parallel to men who are abused and keep quiet though, does it not? In so far as shame and cultural pressures keeps it in the shadows.

 

[rightbrain]

i have already tried proffesional help. i tried therapy, psychiatry and medication. Amazingly the medication worked great until my insurance stopped covering it and it was a $60 monthly expense i couldnt afford.
Also the doctor said i may have to be on it my entire life, and that really kind of made me feel weak and insignificant. The fact that i had to be on medication for to the rest of my life to be "normal", i felt like i failed somehow. It was mostly the money thing that made me stop though. So now i am on the selp help part where i am trying to figure it out for my self.

I know where you're coming from. I absolutely hated the thought of being on meds forever for depression, because hey, shouldn't you just be able to snap out of it? People still can't quite accept that mental illness of any sort is a physical ailment, not a lack of willpower.

And I agree with Dancing David that it's hard to tell whether you're actually "Okay" or not when you suffer from depression. You have no frame of reference other than your own brain.

There are generic antidepressants that cost very little. Wal-Mart carries fluoxetine (generic Prozac) on its $4 Rx program, for example.

Might be worth trying other, less expensive meds--under the supervision of a mental health professional, of course. Why be miserable if you don't have to be?

Just my non-medical opinion. I hope you feel better soon.