Is the Tea Party a uniquely American phenomenon

[AlBell]

Fine. You assert it´s a lie, prove that it´s a lie.

Not the way it works. Or are you worrying about Germany 1933?

 

[stokes234]

Monbiot wrote a good article about a month back, showing the links between big business and the tea party in america:
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2010/10/25/toxic-brew/#more-1294

From what i've read, it seems like it's a bit of both - the tea party movement started, big business clocked on to how they could convince poor people to argue for economic freedom for rich people, and it grew as a combination of big business funding and genuine discontent, with a smattering of libertarians and chicago school economists writing the theory.

 

[AlBell]

That's what I've seen too. Big Money hovers in all political backgrounds; some Tea Party types are receiving some, and Fox does tend to cover Tea Party events of significance.

But many Tea Party types are grassroots.

As those who aver otherwise well know, I suspect. Hence, liars.

 

[Damien Evans]

I suspect it is, since most right wingers in Europe would still be Democrats, or just maybe very left wing republicans if they moved to America.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The term “Tea Party”, of course, is a reference to a rather unique event in early American history, best described by the following exchange from the movie “Mary Poppins”…

Daws: “In 1773, an official of this bank unwisely loaned a large sum of money to finance a shipment of tea to the American colonies. Do you know what happened?”

Banks: “Yes, sir. Yes, I think I do. As the ship lay anchored in Boston Harbor, a party of the colonists dressed as red Indians boarded the vessel, behaved very rudely, and threw all the tea overboard. This made the tea unsuitable for drinking. Even for Americans.”​

This, of course, was one of a series of escalating protests against the British trying to impose excessive taxes and controls over the colonists in America, which led to a war in which the British got their butts rather soundly kicked, and established us as a new, sovereign nation.

 

[tkmikkelsen]

In Denmark we used to have a minimal government party called Fremskridtspartiet (Progression Party, translated to English). They had many of the same ideas about minimal government and low taxes as the Tea Party is promoting in the US these days.
They started as a loose grassroots movement in 1971 and by the Danish election in 1973 they had become so popular that they got 28 seats in the 179 seats big Danish parliament. Denmark has a little more than 2 parties, so 28 seats is a lot.
Slowly during the late 80's and up until 1995 the party declined in popularity as they splintered into smaller parties. In 1995 the party got the final death punch, as some of the most popular figures in the party broke away to form Dansk Folkeparti (Peoples Party of Denmark). By the next election all of the voters for Fremskridtspartiet left for Dansk Folkeparti, who is still today very popular, but is much more of traditional right wing party with focus on stopping immigration and expanding social welfare for Danish people.

What made Fremskridtspartiet so popular in Denmark, was that they like the Tea Party had a very charismatic front figure, in lawyer Mogens Glistrup. Besides being charismatic, it was also said that he was the hardest working man in Danish politics and one of the smartest. He ended up getting jailed for tax evasion and that was the beginning of the end of Fremskridtspartiet.
Maybe if the Tea Party runs a parallel course in the US. We will see Sarah Palin get jailed for tax evasion in 10 years time.

 

[Chaos]

Not the way it works. Or are you worrying about Germany 1933?

He made a claim, so he needs to prove it.

You made a claim (that he is lying, i.e. that he KNOWS his claim his false), so you need to prove that.

It´s that simple... I´m surprised I have to spell it out for you.

 

[AlBell]

He made a claim, so he needs to prove it.

You made a claim (that he is lying, i.e. that he KNOWS his claim his false), so you need to prove that.

It´s that simple... I´m surprised I have to spell it out for you.

Thanks for your concern.

Got something to add to the topic, while you wait for me to dance for you? I only hope you hold your breath while you wait.

 

[Chaos]

Thanks for your concern.

Got something to add to the topic, while you wait for me to dance for you? I only hope you hold your breath while you wait.

So you refuse to back up your claim and fall back on insults. Very classy.

 

[drkitten]

So you refuse to back up your claim and fall back on insults. Very classy.

Well, since he can't back up his claim, what else is there to fall back on?

 

[AlBell]

Either of you seen the proof that the Koch brothers money is the reason Tea Party groups formed? Me neither, but you're welcome to believe it.

 

[Chaos]

Either of you seen the proof that the Koch brothers money is the reason Tea Party groups formed? Me neither, but you're welcome to believe it.

Have you seen proof that Unabogie knowingly made a false claim, i.e. lied?

 

[AlBell]

Have you seen proof that Unabogie knowingly made a false claim, i.e. lied?

Unabogie said "The Tea Party will spring up wherever and whenever its astroturf billionaire funders spend gobs of money to pretend to have organically formed."

I said "Tell that lie often enough even you'll probably begin to believe it."

Some people parse that to mean "Unabogie is a liar." I don't. Now what?

ps. No, I don't think even Unabogie believes it.

 

[rustypouch]

Unabogie said "The Tea Party will spring up wherever and whenever its astroturf billionaire funders spend gobs of money to pretend to have organically formed."

I said "Tell that lie often enough even you'll probably begin to believe it."

Some people parse that to mean "Unabogie is a liar." I don't. Now what?

ps. No, I don't think even Unabogie believes it.

Wait, what?

You claimed that a statement Unabogie made is a lie.

From this, what other interpretation can we come up with than that you think he's a liar?

 

[leftysergeant]

It is really interesting that the teabaggers sprung spontaneously into being underthe same black and yellow banner from sea-to-sea, don't you think?

It is a flag used by a variety of white nationalist, tax protestor and Freeman groups, and has been for years. You see it popping up at twoofer events, too.

So the first groups may have already been operating in the background as a part some of the whackadoodle movements already uintent on bringing down the government.

The corporatist probably just siezed on them as a vehicle by which to befuddle the masses to the corporatists' advantage.

Kind of like the way Papen figured he could paly Hitler.

Another thing that makes them unique to America is that few other civilized nations are so tolerant of dimwits packing openly-carried firearms in public.

 

[AlBell]

OkeyDoke, I'll play; If he believes the statement he made is true, he's a liar. Now I await his backup demonstrating his statement is a fact. I originally took it as usual internet unsubstantiated blather to smear groups he doesn't like. I no longer give a damn.

Everyone happy now?

 

[leftysergeant]

OkeyDoke, I'll play; If he believes the statement he made is true, he's a liar.

Wait. Wouldn't that be a delusion, rather than a lie? Lies are statements made in spite of the fact that the person making such statements knows them to be false.

Now I await his backup demonstrating his statement is a fact. I originally took it as usual internet unsubstantiated blather to smear groups he doesn't like.

The fact that there was such conformity among the first groups to appear and the discovery shortly after that that corproate interests were fostering their activities does lend the conspiratorial view some greatercredibility than it does to any claim of a grass-rots movement.

 

[lomiller]

Now I await his backup demonstrating his statement is a fact. I originally took it as usual internet unsubstantiated blather to smear groups he doesn't like.

Which part of it do you dispute, that the Tea Party has received money from wealthy people or that money can be used to create a faux “grass roots movement”?

 

[leftysergeant]

In the primary campaign of 2008, the PUMAs were invented by a rich slob who has a radio show coming out of Florida.

 

[Unabogie]

This is silly, I already posted the article in which it's shown that Freedom Works is a corporate lobbying firm. They organized the first Tea Party.


http://teaparty.freedomworks.org/events/event/listUpcoming

See? There they are, organizing the events. Is Freedom Works a grass roots organization? Only if you think Dick Armey and Ari Fleischer count. Which is idiotic. So then what do we have? We have the Koch brothers, who also funded these "grass roots" organizations. Weird, huh?

But wait, what about Americans for Prosperity, surely that's a grass roots organization, right?

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Americans_for_Prosperity

Ooops, that's also Koch brothers. Hmm, so what I'm seeing here is that the "movement" is largely funded by a group of right wing billionaires. Just like I said.

So now, how does Fox fit in? Well, it's not like they promoted the Tea Parties, right?

http://mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025

Do grass roots organizations usually have their events promoted endlessly by the largest media outfit in the world? That's not very grassy to me. More plasticky.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200908280029

Which led to the embarrassing event in which the Fox producer got caught waving her arms trying to get the crowd to yell louder for their segment.

So, what more do I need to show that wasn't "lying", that I'm not a "liar" and that billionaires and Fox whipped this thing up out of whole cloth in order to help the GOP?