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Is the Qu'ran from the true God?

PeaceCrusader

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My Dear Fellowmen,

All Muslims are expected to believe the main doctrines of Islam consisting of five articles of faith. These are:
  • God. His name is Allah and is the supreme being of all. He is uncreated, without beginning or end. He created all.
  • Angels. Every person has two angels; one records his good deeds, and the other, his bad deeds. Jibreel (Gabriel) is the angel who brought the revelation of the Qu’ran to Muhammad.
  • Scripture. The four inspired books in Islam are the Taurat (Torah or the first five books of Moses), the Zaboor (Psalms of David), the Injeel (gospel message of Jesus Christ in the New Testament), and the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran supersedes the other books since it is the last and final revelation of Allah.
  • Prophets. Among the numerous prophets or messengers of Allah, the six greatest are Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.
  • Last Days. All people will be resurrected on the last day to be judged. Muslims will go to the Garden of Paradise, the Islamic heaven, and the rest will be tormented in hell. The Islamic heaven is a place of entertainment where men and their wives will be reclining in raised couches and shall have whatever they desire.
Is there anything in these doctrines not correct or not clear? If so, please point it out and explain.

Did the Lord God talk to His prophets?

The Lord God of the Holy Bible created Adam, and out of Adam’s rib, Eve. When they sinned by disobeying God, God drove them out from the garden of Eden. God talked to Adam. If Adam is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so?

The Lord God of the Holy Bible told Noah to build an ark for He would destroy all flesh because of man’s wickedness. In Genesis 6:18 (KJV), God said, “But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.” God spared these eight persons and the living things in the ark when God flooded the earth. God talked to Noah. If Noah is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so?

The Lord God of the Holy Bible made a covenant with Abram (later called Abraham): “Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates” (Genesis 15:18, KJV). Notice that God said, “Unto thy seed.” Singular. Only one. Abraham had two children: Ishmael, the descendants of whom are Muhammad and the Arabs and the Muslims; and Isaac, the descendants of whom are the Jews and Jesus. Who is this seed that God was referring to? God talked to Abraham. If Abraham is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so?

The Lord God of the Holy Bible made Moses to lead in the liberation of the Israelites from about 400 years of bondage in Egypt. God talked to Moses. If Moses is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so?

The Lord God of the Holy Bible said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” during Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:21) and in the transfiguration, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him” (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35). God said of this prophet Jesus, “hear ye him.” If Jesus is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why He is so?

The Holy Bible does not mention the name Muhammad. He is supposedly the last and final prophet although God did not talk to him. The Qu’ran was revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him? If Muhammad is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so?

Is Allah of the Qu’ran and the Lord God of the Holy Bible one and the same?

The peace of the true God reign in our hearts now and forever.

With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
“The Internet is mightier than the sword.”
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Is Allah of the Qu’ran and the Lord God of the Holy Bible one and the same?
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How could they be the same? They weren't created by the same people. They don't even have the same name. Heck, there's a hundred different Jesuses.

What would make Allah or Jesus truer than the other gods? How do we measure a god's trueness? I hope it's not by how true the god's make believers are!
 
I don't recognise the five pillars of faith for Muslims in the OP, I always thought they were

1) There is one God called Allah and Muhammad is his prophet
2) Daily Prayer
3) Charity
4) Fasting
5) Pilgrimage
 
Why would anyone presume that what God whispered into Mohammed's ear is any more relevant than what Moroni whispered into Smith's ear?

Or L-Ron's, for that matter.
 
I am guessing, cold reading, if you will, that this person has seen us pick apart the Bible and is challenging us to do the same with the Quran/Koran.


Of course, as this person has not made themselves clear, I could be wrong.
 
From PeaceCrusader's RECENT PROPHECIES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT:
The source of the following prophecies is a spirit, a holy spirit, and if you will believe it, THE Holy Spirit Himself. I, together with several others, have been fortunate and privileged to communicate with Him and record on audio tape such communications.
Click to expand...
Could I have a copy of such a tape, or could you upload a mp3 file?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
All people will be resurrected on the last day to be judged. Muslims will go to the Garden of Paradise, the Islamic heaven, and the rest will be tormented in hell.
Click to expand...




So many gods, so many rules. Two brothers in Atlanta got sentenced to 10 years in prison last week for torturing a puppy in a microwave oven.

Yes, indeed, we were all created for His pleasure.
 
PeaceCrusader, though this might be a complex issue, according to Islam the Lord God of the Bible and Allah are the same God. Allah is the Arabic word for 'God', and it is used to refer to the Lord God the same way as 'God' is used in English.

You use the Bible as the source for your criticism of the concept of the Lord God and Allah being one and the same. However, this will not convince any Muslims, since according to Islam the Qu'ran is the only version of God's word that has not been edited, translated or changed throughout the ages. The Holy Bible has evidently been edited and translated several times since it was first written, whereas the Qu'ran has been considerably less, if at all, subjected to this kind of changes. It could be argued that the flaws the Bible got from this kind of treatment incorrectly conveys the impression that the Gods are not the same.

But I don't know who you are trying to convince.

Darat said:
I don't recognise the five pillars of faith for Muslims in the OP, I always thought they were

1) There is one God called Allah and Muhammad is his prophet
2) Daily Prayer
3) Charity
4) Fasting
5) Pilgrimage
Click to expand...
They are. PeaceCrusader is writing about the articles of belief, though he skips the last one (faith, qadar) and also suggests that they apply to all Muslims, while they are in fact a Sunni tradition.

This, by the way, is what is not correct in those doctrines. Pointed out and explained.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Is there anything in these doctrines not correct or not clear? If so, please point it out and explain
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It's all clear enough, but as to "correct":
God. There is no evidence such an entity exists.​

Angels. Ditto.​

Scripture. There is no evidence any religious text is inspired.​

Prophets. Every religion has its prophets and, at bottom, it's virtually impossible to tell them or their doctrines apart.​

Last Days, Paradise, etc. We've been in the supposed Last Days ever since someone thought up the phrase, and I suspect we will be until the sun burns out in however many billion years. As for Paradise, I'm getting my ticket punched for Valhalla.​
 
Dear Wombatwal and Fellow Forumers,

wombatwal said:
Is the Qu'ran from the true God?

Why not ask this on this forum. http://forums.muslimvillage.net/index.php?act=idx
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the information.

I will post the question in that forum too to get the opinion of Muslims, in particular. Anyway, this concerns them so it may be advantageous for them to ponder on it.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
Dear Darat and Fellow Forumers,

Darat said:
I don't recognise the five pillars of faith for Muslims in the OP, I always thought they were

1) There is one God called Allah and Muhammad is his prophet
2) Daily Prayer
3) Charity
4) Fasting
5) Pilgrimage
Click to expand...

What I presented are the Five Articles of Faith. What you presented are the Five Pillars of Faith. Rufo has been kind to clarify it and added a sixth article of faith. This is called Kismet, the doctrine of fate or the belief in God’s decrees—a very rigid belief of predestination wherein all good or evil deeds proceed from the will of God. Many Muslims believe that this major teaching of Islam belongs to the five articles.

I believe that God is good and He does like His creation to do evil deeds. That is why one of His commandments is to love your neighbor as you love your self. You don’t want your things to be stolen, so you shall not steal. You don’t want others hurt or kill you, so you shall not hurt or kill others.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
Dear Rufo and Fellow Forumers,
Rufo said:
PeaceCrusader, though this might be a complex issue, according to Islam the Lord God of the Bible and Allah are the same God. Allah is the Arabic word for 'God', and it is used to refer to the Lord God the same way as 'God' is used in English.
Click to expand...

I know that God is known by different names. Allah may be the Arabic word for ‘God’ but is he the same Lord God of the Bible? Again, I ask, without any holy scripture, just plain logic, how do you consider a god as god? How can you differentiate the true God from the false gods?
You use the Bible as the source for your criticism of the concept of the Lord God and Allah being one and the same. However, this will not convince any Muslims, since according to Islam the Qu'ran is the only version of God's word that has not been edited, translated or changed throughout the ages. The Holy Bible has evidently been edited and translated several times since it was first written, whereas the Qu'ran has been considerably less, if at all, subjected to this kind of changes. It could be argued that the flaws the Bible got from this kind of treatment incorrectly conveys the impression that the Gods are not the same.

But I don't know who you are trying to convince.
Click to expand...

You claim that the Qu’ran has not been changed through the ages. That may be true. Still in the original Arabic text I suppose after about 1600 years. But does that justify that it is from the true God? I am asking: why did the Lord God not reveal the Qu’ran directly to Muhammad? Why through an angel? Are you sure that that angel is angel Gabriel?

I have mentioned that to all the great prophets or messengers of God that the Muslims recognize, the Lord God talked directly to them, except to Muhammad. Why?

The Holy Bible may have “been edited and translated several times since it was first written” but does that mean that it is not from the Lord God? That is why the spirit we talk to recommended that we use the King James Version because it is, according to Him, nearer the truth.

Now, even if the Bible has been edited and changed, don’t you think that there is somebody who knows and can tell us which is correct and which is wrong (because of changes)? Do you know who that somebody is? FYI, He is the Holy Spirit who Jesus said that He would send after He departed. True enough, the Holy Spirit came and gave the 120 or so followers of Jesus who were waiting in a house in Jerusalem after Jesus ascended to Heaven at Mount Olivet the gift of speaking in tongues. That is why the disciples led by Peter was able to talk to the pilgrims who came to Jerusalem from different parts of the world in their own native language.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Dear Rufo and Fellow Forumers,


I know that God is known by different names. Allah may be the Arabic word for ‘God’ but is he the same Lord God of the Bible? Again, I ask, without any holy scripture, just plain logic, how do you consider a god as god? How can you differentiate the true God from the false gods?


You claim that the Qu’ran has not been changed through the ages. That may be true. Still in the original Arabic text I suppose after about 1600 years. But does that justify that it is from the true God? I am asking: why did the Lord God not reveal the Qu’ran directly to Muhammad? Why through an angel? Are you sure that that angel is angel Gabriel?

I have mentioned that to all the great prophets or messengers of God that the Muslims recognize, the Lord God talked directly to them, except to Muhammad. Why?

The Holy Bible may have “been edited and translated several times since it was first written” but does that mean that it is not from the Lord God? That is why the spirit we talk to recommended that we use the King James Version because it is, according to Him, nearer the truth.

Now, even if the Bible has been edited and changed, don’t you think that there is somebody who knows and can tell us which is correct and which is wrong (because of changes)? Do you know who that somebody is? FYI, He is the Holy Spirit who Jesus said that He would send after He departed. True enough, the Holy Spirit came and gave the 120 or so followers of Jesus who were waiting in a house in Jerusalem after Jesus ascended to Heaven at Mount Olivet the gift of speaking in tongues. That is why the disciples led by Peter was able to talk to the pilgrims who came to Jerusalem from different parts of the world in their own native language.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Click to expand...

As someone else asked above, it would be great the hear a recording of these conversations (well, not really, it would only prove two people talked to each other). But I suspect that this spirit talks directly to your soul, and there is no actual audio to be heard by anyone else?

This, if true, would point more to delusion than conversation.

Perhaps, as a sign to this unbeliever, you can ask this spirit, the next time you talk, what my real name and address are? Then post them here for me to see! I'm sure this spirit, if it's any kind of decent spirit at all, will be able to tell you.

And I'm sure that the spirit, if it's a true Holy spirit, won't mind being tested. After all, as we read in it's reccomended referance -

1 John 4 (KJV)

1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I'll be waiting :)
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Dear Rufo and Fellow Forumers,


I know that God is known by different names. Allah may be the Arabic word for ‘God’ but is he the same Lord God of the Bible? Again, I ask, without any holy scripture, just plain logic, how do you consider a god as god? How can you differentiate the true God from the false gods?
Assumption 1: There is a god.
This is a big one for a lot of people here to get over. There is scant (if any) solid evidence that there is, in fact, a deity.

Assumption 2: Assuming, a priori, that Assumption 1 has a positive answer, that deity is the deity of the People of the Book (Jews, Christians, Muslims).
This is another big sticking point. What makes those fairy tales any more true than the fairy tales of the Hindus? Of the Neo-Pagans? Of the Native Americans? Etc.

Until those two assumptions are satisified, your question "How can you differentiate the true God from the false gods?" is meaningless. You're missing a very important option...that there is no god of any sort, true, false or tri-state.



PeaceCrusader said:
You claim that the Qu’ran has not been changed through the ages. That may be true. Still in the original Arabic text I suppose after about 1600 years. But does that justify that it is from the true God? I am asking: why did the Lord God not reveal the Qu’ran directly to Muhammad? Why through an angel? Are you sure that that angel is angel Gabriel?
Click to expand...
If you read carefully, you'll see that Rufo clearly said "according to Islam the Qu'ran is the only version of God's word that has not been edited, translated or changed throughout the ages". I don't know Rufo well enough to know if they are a Muslim and that that statment is their own.

In any case, it doesn't matter. That a religion claims that their holy book hasn't changed is de rigeur, really.

Ok, there's no evidence that there are ANY angels, let alone Gabriel. So, that a camel trader in the 600's claims that he got the Word Of Godtm from something that most likely doesn't exist to begin with, tells me more about Muhammed's mental state, than any kind of deity. At least Guatama had the good sense to starve himself to make his delusions understandable.


PeaceCrusader said:
I have mentioned that to all the great prophets or messengers of God that the Muslims recognize, the Lord God talked directly to them, except to Muhammad. Why?
Click to expand...
And you have evidence of these talkings, do you? Something other than a holy book of questionable veracity?

PeaceCrusader said:
The Holy Bible may have “been edited and translated several times since it was first written” but does that mean that it is not from the Lord God? That is why the spirit we talk to recommended that we use the King James Version because it is, according to Him, nearer the truth.
Click to expand...
1) See Assumption 1, above.
2) If there is a god, and it is the Judeo-Christian one, this Bible of yours was written in a few languages. None of which were English. So saying that the KJV is the one that is "nearer the truth" is just silly. It doesn't follow by any strech of the imagination. I'll give the Muslims something here, at least they say that the only true translation is the origional Arabic.
3) You're talking to spirits? Ok, time to intorduce you to a little rule of thumb. If you're talking to god, it's called prayer; if god is talking to you, it's called schitzophrenia.

PeaceCrusader said:
Now, even if the Bible has been edited and changed, don’t you think that there is somebody who knows and can tell us which is correct and which is wrong (because of changes)? Do you know who that somebody is? FYI, He is the Holy Spirit who Jesus said that He would send after He departed. True enough, the Holy Spirit came and gave the 120 or so followers of Jesus who were waiting in a house in Jerusalem after Jesus ascended to Heaven at Mount Olivet the gift of speaking in tongues. That is why the disciples led by Peter was able to talk to the pilgrims who came to Jerusalem from different parts of the world in their own native language.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Click to expand...
Ok, until you can prove that this god of yours exists, you cannot use him in an argument. So, go back, brush up on your apologietics, learn a bit about making a cogent argument, then come back. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Is the Qu'ran from the true God?
Click to expand...

Why, yes, it is. Why did God act the way He did? Because that is how He wanted it. Why are you questioning God? Damn, you must be one holy mother do be able to do that. I would never think of questioning God.

By the way, you've never read the Qu'ran have you? If you have bothered to do so, could you please show me the substantive difference between the passages in the Qu'ran and the books of Genesis and Exodus? It certainly seems to me that Mohamed wrote the "words of God" from the deity's perspective. He received these revelations over a very long period (~ 20 years or so). It never expressly says that Gabriel was responsible for every single revelation. Besides the Abraham story seems to include angels more than God Himself (except possibly in dreams and who knows who it was doing the talking there). What difference could it possibly make if the message comes from God through an angel or from God Himself? Is it possible that Noah received his message through angels? I mean that is their job after all, isn't it, being messengers?
 
Does the Qu'ran mention Noah and the great flood? (Hint: yes)

Then it is just as false as the Bible.

So yes, the same false god as in the Bible is also in the Qu'ran.

The one true god is Thor - god of thunder. I hear him talking loud and clear.
 
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