Is the Lottery for fools?

Starrman said:
"That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard! That's a combination some idiot would have on his luggage!"

I'll buy you a lottery ticket if you get the reference...
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Spaceballs. But I'll take a case of Perri-Air instead.
 
tsg said:
That doesn't make it a rational decision by itself, though. People generally gamble with an expectation to win.

The point I'm getting at is if the enjoyment they get from playing the lottery is based on an unreasonable expectation of winning, isn't that a false hope?
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I never gamble with an expectation of winning. That is why I never gamble more than I can afford to lose. I gamble with a hope of winning though. That's a wholly different thing.

Enjoyment and entertainment are not really things that can easily be catagorized as irrational. Is it any more or less rational to buy a lottery ticket than to scream "Throw the ball, you dummy!" at one's favorite football team through the TV screen or to wrap oneself up in the escapist fantasy of a rousing game of D&D? I don't think so. But, to go back to the original quesion of the thread, is one a fool to partake of these entertainments. I also don't think so as we all need our fun. For some, that fun is gambling.
 
I think if a lottery is run where the government knows that poor people will play irresponsibly and out of proportion, using the "noboby is forcing them to play" argument is a bit of a cop-out. Holding out a false hope is just wrong.

And like the poor, I think state governments are becoming far too dependent on these lotteries instead of learning fiscal responsibility, and will eventually screw the pooch.

Just a hunch.

In other news, El Gordo has reached 2.4 Billion dollars! :eek:
 
Luke T. said:
And like the poor, I think state governments are becoming far too dependent on these lotteries instead of learning fiscal responsibility, and will eventually screw the pooch.
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That is quite true but an entirely different subject. We are seeing that effect with gambling in Nevada. When we were the only state that permitted gambling we could depend on nothing but gaming revenues to run the state. As more states legalize it, we find ourselves having to rely on it less and less as a fiscal crutch. In recent years, the idea of a state income tax has been batted around, something that would have been unthinkable and superfluous 30 years ago.
 
Starrman said:
"That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard! That's a combination some idiot would have on his luggage!"

I'll buy you a lottery ticket if you get the reference...
Click to expand...

Spaceballs. I'll be nice, we can share it if we win.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
I never gamble with an expectation of winning. That is why I never gamble more than I can afford to lose. I gamble with a hope of winning though. That's a wholly different thing.
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Just to avoid a semantic argument, I'm using the word "expectation" to mean belief of a certain level of probability. When I say lottery players have a unrealistic expectation of winning, I mean they believe it is more probable than it really is. This is also true of most people who gamble.

Enjoyment and entertainment are not really things that can easily be catagorized as irrational. Is it any more or less rational to buy a lottery ticket than to scream "Throw the ball, you dummy!" at one's favorite football team through the TV screen or to wrap oneself up in the escapist fantasy of a rousing game of D&D? I don't think so. But, to go back to the original quesion of the thread, is one a fool to partake of these entertainments. I also don't think so as we all need our fun. For some, that fun is gambling.
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I understand that, and I'm not arguing whether or not entertainment is worth spending money on. But what I am concerned with is if the reason for that enjoyment is based on delusion, is it still rational? I think that if any particular person can say that they still get the same amount of entertainment from spending the dollar on the lottery knowing exactly how small their chance of winning is, then it is rational. But I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people who play the lottery can't even conceive of probabilities that low and that they do have a certain expectation of winning that, even if it is very low, is still much higher than their actual chances. If they knew (and could comprehend) that they could spend $100,000 a year for 50 years and still be more likely to lose every time, would they still play? If the answer is no, then their decision to play is not a rational one regardless of how much they enjoy it because their enjoyment is dependent on false hope.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
what utilitarian benefit do you derrive from watching a movie, or reading fiction?
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At least these can broaden a person's perspective; these activities at least involve SOME intellectual stimulation. Granted, not all films or novels are worth the celluloid/paper they're printed on. But film and fiction make up a big part of what we often call "culture."

There's no comparison between reading a book and buying a lottery ticket.
 
Almo said:
At least these can broaden a person's perspective; these activities at least involve SOME intellectual stimulation. Granted, not all films or novels are worth the celluloid/paper they're printed on. But film and fiction make up a big part of what we often call "culture."

There's no comparison between reading a book and buying a lottery ticket.
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Your first paragraph is true, but what utilitarian purpose does culture serve? It makes us feel good and gives meaning to our lives.

some people find collecting balls of makes them feel good, and gives meaning to their lives. You're essentially making an arguement from popularity.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
If its money they can afford to spend, then there is no problem with spending money on something merely to derive enjoyment from it.
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But it's the people who can least afford to pay for the tickets that buy them. People who earn decent money know it's better to invest their money than buy lottery tickets. It gives false hope to those who can least afford it.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Your first paragraph is true, but what utilitarian purpose does culture serve?
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It depends on what you deem utilitarian.

One example: People get involved with film and fiction. How many authors/directors say a certain book/film had a big impact on their life, and they pursued a career because of it? At least the pursuit of "culture" produces tangible works; whereas lotteries just vacuum up money from people who don't understand statistics.
 
Almo said:
But it's the people who can least afford to pay for the tickets that buy them. People who earn decent money know it's better to invest their money than buy lottery tickets. It gives false hope to those who can least afford it.
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Well, if someone is buying lottery tickets they can't afford then they are indeed being foolish. However that does not make the act of buying lottery ticket foolish in itself.
 
Almo said:
It depends on what you deem utilitarian.

One example: People get involved with film and fiction. How many authors/directors say a certain book/film had a big impact on their life, and they pursued a career because of it? At least the pursuit of "culture" produces tangible works; whereas lotteries just vacuum up money from people who don't understand statistics.
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And how many people read/watch stuff that is pure escapism? Things that netiher have any cultural significance nor are meant to. I'd say a lot since that kind of thing comprises the vast bulk of what we see on movie screens.
 
Almo said:
It depends on what you deem utilitarian.

One example: People get involved with film and fiction. How many authors/directors say a certain book/film had a big impact on their life, and they pursued a career because of it? At least the pursuit of "culture" produces tangible works; whereas lotteries just vacuum up money from people who don't understand statistics.
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Tangible works without a utilitarian purpose.
 
Interesting Ian said:
Can you not buy the tickets online? You have been able to for 2 - 3 years for the UK national lottery. Much better because they email you if you win so you don't have to bother checking your tickets.
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I think people without computers are those more likely to want to buy tickets. So it's a wash. But yes, you can tickets online.
 
I've known two people who have won the lottery, my high school algebra teacher and years later, my next-door neighbor. They have a very, very different view of the lottery. I know at least one of them still plays the lottery religiously. The algebra teacher once told me the odds were a million to one if you bought a ticket but it's zero if you don't buy a ticket.
 
I'm prompted to join in because today I had my first Premium Bond win, of £50. Although I'd had £7 worth of bonds since I was a child, I'd never won anything (what a surprise!). In November I purchased as close to the maximum holding as I could go. I figure I'll probably get £50 every month, maybe a higher prize every once in a while. That will make my interest rate on my capital maybe 2-2.5%. If I get the average for all Bonds then it will be 3%, though given that some of the interest goes to the very big prizes I expect that those who don't win these will average out slightly less. It will be interesting to see how I've done, this time next year.

My Dad used to say, with Premium Bonds you're gambling your interest, but in fact with a reasonable investment you're gambling your interest rate. Maybe settling for a slightly lower rate compared to what you could get in a deposit account, who knows, in return for two chances a month to win £1million (and some £100,000 and lesser but still substantial amounts too).

So. I'm still getting a not-too-bad interest rate, and I'm not risking a penny of my capital, and I think it's quite fun opening the prize envelope in the hope that it might have more than one zero on it. Am I a fool?

I've never bought a lottery ticket in my life, by the way.

Rolfe.
 
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