Is suicide always a sin?

[Radrook]

Some religious individfuals would say that suicide is always a sin because only God has a right to take life. They describe the taking of one's own life as beinng self-murder.

How many here agree with that view?

 

[Doctor X]

It actually was not a sin in Jewish and "Christian"--and classical--societies until very late. A great reference is Droge & Tabor's, A Noble Death which discusses the history of suicide and the religion's reactions to it.

--J.D.

 

[metropolis_part_one]

I think suicide is always a sin. This is because it results from despair. Despair is the worst sin and the only unforgivable one. It means that you have given up trusting in God to help you, or you don't think he will/can help you. If you are going to commit suicide, things in your life must have gotten extremely bad. But you should supposedly trust in God to look after you and see you through it. If you don't, you are despairing in him and so commiting the worst sin.

 

[Doctor X]

I would think raping children and ordering them burned alive is a slightly more eggregious and unforgiveable sin than "despair."

Of course, that is just me. . . .

--J.D.

 

[Iacchus]

And what if the soldier threw himself over the grenade to save the life of his buddies?

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." ~ John 15:13

 

[Tricky]

I think suicide is never a sin. If there is one thing that you can truly call your own, it is your own life. Choosing to end it prematurely is a decision that only the person can make.

It may be tragic and/or selfish, but still, ultimately, a personal decision. Or it may be honorable, as Iacchus has pointed out.

I know one person who killed himself for whom I have nothing but respect. He had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer. But it was a slow-moving kind, and he was destined to put himself and his family through a long, painful, expensive and hopeless ordeal. I totally respect his decision.

Frankly, if I was facing some hopeless, mind-destroying disease, like Alzheimers, I would not want to put my family through that, realizing that after a while, it wouldn't even be "me", but just my body.

 

[Piscivore]

Some religious individfuals would say that suicide is always a sin because only God has a right to take life. They describe the taking of one's own life as beinng self-murder.

How many here agree with that view?

I say it is utter hogwash- without a god to "sin" against, there can be no "sin".

Suicidal persons need help, not condemnation.

 

[Agammamon]

And what if the soldier threw himself over the grenade to save the life of his buddies. . .

Which bring up the question of what exactly constitutes suicide. How much intent is required? Are there extenuating circumstances?

 

[toddjh]

Which bring up the question of what exactly constitutes suicide. How much intent is required? Are there extenuating circumstances?

I wouldn't consider it suicide unless death was the goal, not an unwanted side effect.

I have mixed feelings about it. I have absolutely no problem with people suffering from terminal illnesses checking out (which I have a feeling I'll do one day myself), but I don't think any person off the street should be able to go into a pharmacy and buy potassium chloride. I think every effort should be made to discourage suicide due to a potentially temporary situation.

It's not just about personal freedom; Society has invested a lot in each person, and has a responsibility to discourage them from making decisions they'll regret later (so to speak). I don't think suicide should be illegal -- and you can't really stop a determined person from killing himself anyway -- but that doesn't mean it should be easy.

As for whether or not it's a "sin," I have yet to see a useful operating definition for that word, so I can't say.

Jeremy

 

[roger]

This is because it results from despair.... It means that you have given up trusting in God to help you

Evidence?

Specifically, show how depression resulting from physical illnesses is actually 'despair', as defined above. Show how bad brain chemistry/wiring (yes, not so scientific words, but the meaning is clear) is not the issue in other cases, but lack of faith in God.

For example: depression can be caused by the following medical conditions: extrapyramidal diseases (parkinson's, etc), cerebral neoplasms, cerebral trauma, central nervous system infections, epilepsy, narcolepsy, sleep apnea, Wilson's disease, Addison's disease, Hypoaldosteronism, postpartum disorders, hypothyroidism, Sjogren's syndrome, Vitamin B12 deficiency, Porphyria, systemic neoplasms.

For a start.

edited to add: Also, you will need to show how it is that atheists that are suicidially depressed, yet do not take their lives, manage to do so despite the lack of faith.

 

[Iacchus]

Which bring up the question of what exactly constitutes suicide. How much intent is required? Are there extenuating circumstances?

Of course aren't you in fact chosing suicide when you allow yourself to be martyred for the sake of what you believe, in the name of Jesus for example? Or, what about the case with the inhabitants of Masada? Where the whole community opted for suicide rather than be taken as slaves by the Romans?

 

[Bubbles]

Of course aren't you in fact chosing suicide when you allow yourself to be martyred for the sake of what you believe, in the name of Jesus for example? Or, what about the case with the inhabitants of Masada? Where the whole community opted for suicide rather than be taken as slaves by the Romans?

I like what Chesterton said in destinguishing martyrdom from suicide. He objected to those who equated the two, believing them to be opposites.

A Martyr (or, at least, a potential martyr): A man who believes that there is something worth dying for.

A suicide (what is the term, exactly): A man who believes that there is nothing worth living for.

Death is the only thing the two have in common.

 

[Tricky]

I like what Chesterton said in destinguishing martyrdom from suicide. He objected to those who equated the two, believing them to be opposites.

A Martyr (or, at least, a potential martyr): A man who believes that there is something worth dying for.

A suicide (what is the term, exactly): A man who believes that there is nothing worth living for.

Death is the only thing the two have in common.

But, as in most things, there are no absolutes. A depressed person may believe that the world would be better off without him, which, in his mind, means that he would be dying for a cause.

You might even say that a person kills him(her)self when the need to die overbalances the wish to live. In some cases (like throwing yourself on a grenade) the weight is greatly in favor of needing to die (to save others), and in other cases the wish to live may simply be very weak. But there are certainly cases near the center where you might understand why a person might not wish to live at a certain time, but also knew that it was likely to be a temporary imbalance. For the chronically depressed, I see no reason why we should force them to live a life that tortures them constantly unless we had good reason to believe that it was going to change soon.

 

[Upchurch]

A Martyr (or, at least, a potential martyr): A man who believes that there is something worth dying for.

A suicide (what is the term, exactly): A man who believes that there is nothing worth living for.

By this definition, "suicide bombers" would be more correctly termed "martyr bombers", since they believe their cause is worth dying for. My gut reaction is that the possitive connotations that are usually associated with "martyr" should not be appliled to such a horrible act. But that, of course, would be overlaying my own mortality on others and may not be accurate.

 

[Starrman]

It means that you have given up trusting in God to help you, or you don't think he will/can help you.

If god exists he makes a living out of not helping people. Believing he will help you IS dispair, as you have then given up helping yourself.

 

[LostAngeles]

...Believing he will help you IS dispair, as you have then given up helping yourself.

As one who's "been there, done that" with this, Starrman leads to a good point.

When it comes down to it, the only person that can help you is you. You're the one that has to reach out for others to help you. You're the one that has to kick your own ass out of that pit. You're the one that has to turn to your faith for help.

You. You. You. God helps those who helps themselves, little Christians.

Is suicide a sin? Dunno, but it can be a real crappy thing to do to those who love you. (which is likely more than you'd think at the time)

 

[Bubbles]

The first rule of suicide: Never commit suicide to get back at people that you think hate you; if you're right, you're just playing into their hands.

I think that the discussion of despair has been. . . not quite right. Allow me to offer a definition of despair: the belief that one is beyond redeeming. Despair is the vice that corresponds to the virue of hope. Hope does not prevent action, despair does. Despair does not act because it sees no point in acting (if things are beyond fixing, why bother trying?). Hope acts because whatever is wrong is not seen as irrepairable.

Regarding the statement that despair is the greatest sin: we should make a destinction between the impact of the sin upon the universe and the impact of the sin upon the sinner. In the second sense, every other sin is a matter of breaking something in one's soul. To use an analogy, other sins are matters of wrong choices. Despair is a matter of not trying at all.

Humility is, among other things, the virtue of knowing that what is broken is beyond MY power to make right. Hope is, among other things, the virtue of knowing that nothing is beyond GOD'S power to make right. Hope does not produce inactivity. It does not say, "I'll sit here and do nothing and God will take care of everything", but rather that, "God, working in me and through me, can make well allthat is not well"

Having said that, you don't tell someone struggling with despair that it is the greatest sin. The reason is clear: it just adds to their feelings of guilt/pain (you've given them something new to feel bad about). Just because it is true, doesn't mean that you have to say it!

 

[toddjh]

Hope is, among other things, the virtue of knowing that nothing is beyond GOD'S power to make right. Hope does not produce inactivity. It does not say, "I'll sit here and do nothing and God will take care of everything", but rather that, "God, working in me and through me, can make well allthat is not well"

I disagree. The number of times that a major, even life-threatening problem is not solved indicates that God is, if not unable, at least unwilling to intervene on people's behalf much of the time. Thus, the kind of hope you advocate is irrational. Even believers must acknowledge that there are many situations in which they can't expect any help from God. The vast majority of HIV victims and incurable cancer patients are good examples.

While there are occasional "miraculous" cures of these conditions, they are very much the exception rather than the rule. I don't see why despair should be considered a sin for an AIDS victim, since it is not rational for him to assume that God will magic away the problem under any circumstances, no matter how much he believes or how good a person he is.

Frankly, it seems kind of petty of God to regard such things as sin. I can certainly sympathize with the despair of a person with a terminal illness. Honestly, I'd be surprised if he didn't feel that way at one point or another. If I, a mere mortal, can understand these feelings without any negativity, then why can't God?

Jeremy

 

[Doctor X]

Indeed, I could repost that [Blathering.--Ed.] bit about a childhood tumor.

--J.D.

 

[Radrook]

Frankly, it seems kind of petty of God to regard such things as sin. I can certainly sympathize with the despair of a person with a terminal illness. Honestly, I'd be surprised if he didn't feel that way at one point or another. If I, a mere mortal, can understand these feelings without any negativity, then why can't God?

Jeremy

If I am about to die by being slowly burned alive while pinned under a truck it is natural for me to prefer a quick death as opposed to the torment which might last perhaps an hour or more. I recall a person telling me that this happened to a fellow in Pennsylvania. He was trapped under a burning vehicle and though he requested desperately to be given a quick death or else handed a revolver in order to escape a grissly death he was refused and was allowed to roast slowly to death bcause the people there said it would have been a sin to either shoot him or else give hm the weapon so he could commit suicide.