Is Rudy Giuliani working for Putin?

Venom said:
He's working for Trump.
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You've got it backwards. There's no way Dolt 45 actually figured out:

1) Joe Biden helped get a corrupt Ukrainian DA fired and replaced with a better one,

2) Biden's son took a position with a Ukrainian oil company shortly afterwards,

3) The current US ambassador to Ukraine stood in the way of the US demanding the removal of the new DA,

4) Ukraine was desperate for US defense funding and equipment,

5) The new Ukrainian president could potentially be extorted into making a false announcement of an investigation on a US(!) cable news network,

6) Dolt 45 won in large part because of a combination of Comey's surprise last-minute announcement that the FBI was reopening their investigation into Hillary's emails (a case which, I think any tech head will agree, was obviously never going to turn up anything new), and the FBI's false denials that Trump and people connected to his campaign were under investigation,

7) The announcement could, therefore, be used to affect poll number for Biden, if only in the short term.

Guiliani, however, is smart enough to put all this together. He also has a number of business interests in the country, *and* would be aware of Russia's goofball conspiracies about how it was really Ukraine.

(Also, he's a scumbag who, although smart, is not a genius - and has been linked to corruption before through Bernie Kerik)

Also, what does Dolt 45 get out of this? A different, likely stronger opponent? A minor dip, until people look into it and say "Huh, they don't seem to actually be investigating anything. What was that announcement about?" and start digging?

What does Guiliani get out of it? The removal of a DA, and an ambassador, that are strongly anti-corruption - and thus a lot of money for himself and the people that are *actually* paying him (remember, he's said that Dolt 45 hasn't paid him a thin dime). And all he has to do is manipulate the idiot-in-chief into doing a few things for him - as we've seen this is easy.

Nah, this scheme is from Guiliani & Friends.

ETA: there are other things here that I can't be bothered to look up (eg: the person who actually *is* paying Guiliani), but this is about as far as my own concern goes.
 
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Re Putin and Trump: I think it's a case of each trying to use the other and so far I think Putin is doing a better job.
 
Rudi and Donald are the Cargo Cultists of Conspirators:
they think if they say and do things that some rich and/or powerful despot will like.
Next stage profit.
 
Apparently after Giulliani's (rather embarrassing) appearance on Fox and Friends, Geraldo Riveara had this to say:

From: https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-geraldo-rivera-laments-watching-rudy-giuliani-deteriorate/
I’ve known him since he was a newly-appointed U.S. attorney in the Southern District here in New York. Then he became ‘America’s Mayor,’...To see him kind of deteriorate right before your very eyes — and I love the guy — but I think that this is…
...
I don’t come here for people to agree with me. I come to tell you how I feel from the bottom of my heart and from the bottom of my heart, I feel like Rudy Giuliani has been diminished by this entire saga. I think the more he talks the worse it is for the President of the United States.
 
I've thought about it.

And it's looking like Giuliani's breakthrough about some Ukrainian (not Russian) meddling in the 2016 election was provided by Russian disinfo agents. I mean it just appears so transparent.
 
Segnosaur said:
Apparently after Giulliani's (rather embarrassing) appearance on Fox and Friends, Geraldo Riveara had this to say:

From: https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-geraldo-rivera-laments-watching-rudy-giuliani-deteriorate/
I’ve known him since he was a newly-appointed U.S. attorney in the Southern District here in New York. Then he became ‘America’s Mayor,’...To see him kind of deteriorate right before your very eyes — and I love the guy — but I think that this is…
...
I don’t come here for people to agree with me. I come to tell you how I feel from the bottom of my heart and from the bottom of my heart, I feel like Rudy Giuliani has been diminished by this entire saga. I think the more he talks the worse it is for the President of the United States.
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I seldom agree with Rivera, but he's right about this. Giuliani has made such a fool of himself and he has fallen so far. Sadly, he's done most of it to himself by becoming so involved in Trump's shenanigans.
 
Stacyhs said:
I seldom agree with Rivera, but he's right about this. Giuliani has made such a fool of himself and he has fallen so far. Sadly, he's done most of it to himself by becoming so involved in Trump's shenanigans.
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I'll keep saying this - I see little daylight between the man now, and the man that :

launched his mayoral campaign in a racist cop riot,

tried to shut down a museum because he didn't like an exhibit,

pointlessly (and at great cost) unsealed the juvenile records of a police shooting victim because "he was no altar boy." (the victim had served as an altar boy at the same catholic HS Guiliani had attended);

married his second cousin;

told his wife he was remarrying by announcing it on tv;

tried to ban ferrets;

created and implemented the unconstitutional the Stop and Frisk program based on a complete misreading of a single study;

forced the city to build it's Joint Command center in WTC7 over all objections, despite the World Trade Center had already been attacked before (and by Al Qaida);

and has been involved in various two-bit schemes ever since.

The man did a good job locking up mobsters as AG, but even then he was reportedly a glory hound - and he's off his rocker ever since been making a fool of himself ever since, often at great expense and/or loss of life to those around him.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Working for Trump IS working for Putin, since Trump is putin's puppet.
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Rewind us back about 8 years, and the argument was how the 1980's were calling to have it's foreign policy back. Go back about 3 years and 3 months; and the argument was "stop whining about the election results before the election takes place".. Rewind 3 years on the dot.... Russia is suddenly back to being the existential threat.... a claim that Romney was mocked for in 2012... The irony of the last 3 years is rather entertaining... to put it mildly*.

*The outcome being that they did try to interfere in the election but hadn't affected the votes. And outright denial and lack of action in responding to said threat during the 2016 election cycle to boot while the notion of it taking place was known behind the scenes, but never acted on...
 
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Mumbles said:
I'll keep saying this - I see little daylight between the man now, and the man that :

launched his mayoral campaign in a racist cop riot,

tried to shut down a museum because he didn't like an exhibit,

pointlessly (and at great cost) unsealed the juvenile records of a police shooting victim because "he was no altar boy." (the victim had served as an altar boy at the same catholic HS Guiliani had attended);

married his second cousin;

told his wife he was remarrying by announcing it on tv;

tried to ban ferrets;

created and implemented the unconstitutional the Stop and Frisk program based on a complete misreading of a single study;

forced the city to build it's Joint Command center in WTC7 over all objections, despite the World Trade Center had already been attacked before (and by Al Qaida);

and has been involved in various two-bit schemes ever since.

The man did a good job locking up mobsters as AG, but even then he was reportedly a glory hound - and he's off his rocker ever since been making a fool of himself ever since, often at great expense and/or loss of life to those around him.
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I was not aware of most of that. I was thinking more of the Giuliani of 9/11.

Marrying a second cousin is fine. All 50 states allow it as there is no more chance of the children having genetic defects than the children of non-related parents.
 
Segnosaur said:
Apparently after Giulliani's (rather embarrassing) appearance on Fox and Friends, Geraldo Riveara had this to say:

From: https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-geraldo-rivera-laments-watching-rudy-giuliani-deteriorate/
I’ve known him since he was a newly-appointed U.S. attorney in the Southern District here in New York. Then he became ‘America’s Mayor,’...To see him kind of deteriorate right before your very eyes — and I love the guy — but I think that this is…
...
I don’t come here for people to agree with me. I come to tell you how I feel from the bottom of my heart and from the bottom of my heart, I feel like Rudy Giuliani has been diminished by this entire saga. I think the more he talks the worse it is for the President of the United States.
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The audience loved it.
 
Mumbles said:
I'll keep saying this - I see little daylight between the man now, and the man that :

launched his mayoral campaign in a racist cop riot,

tried to shut down a museum because he didn't like an exhibit,

pointlessly (and at great cost) unsealed the juvenile records of a police shooting victim because "he was no altar boy." (the victim had served as an altar boy at the same catholic HS Guiliani had attended);

married his second cousin;

told his wife he was remarrying by announcing it on tv;

tried to ban ferrets;

created and implemented the unconstitutional the Stop and Frisk program based on a complete misreading of a single study;

forced the city to build it's Joint Command center in WTC7 over all objections, despite the World Trade Center had already been attacked before (and by Al Qaida);

and has been involved in various two-bit schemes ever since.

The man did a good job locking up mobsters as AG, but even then he was reportedly a glory hound - and he's off his rocker ever since been making a fool of himself ever since, often at great expense and/or loss of life to those around him.
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Nothing screams "I don't have a serious complaint" like "tried to ban ferrets".
 
Segnosaur said:
Apparently after Giulliani's (rather embarrassing) appearance on Fox and Friends, Geraldo Riveara had this to say:

From: https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-geraldo-rivera-laments-watching-rudy-giuliani-deteriorate/
I’ve known him since he was a newly-appointed U.S. attorney in the Southern District here in New York. Then he became ‘America’s Mayor,’...To see him kind of deteriorate right before your very eyes — and I love the guy — but I think that this is…
...
I don’t come here for people to agree with me. I come to tell you how I feel from the bottom of my heart and from the bottom of my heart, I feel like Rudy Giuliani has been diminished by this entire saga. I think the more he talks the worse it is for the President of the United States.
Click to expand...

Though I have never cared for Rivera, I did watch enough of him to believe he does have a heart. While I don't care if he feels bad about watching Rudy's fall from grace, it seems he did spell things out chronologically.

Most people seem to understand that Rudy is an embarrassment, a crude caricature of a bumbling buffoon. No sane, logical person would chose him to represent them. No rational person would want any association.

Which is why he and Trump work together.
 
The left's big chance to prove its assertions about certain politicians being Russian assets is upon us! In an opening salvo, Tulsi Gabbard has sued Hillary for $50 million for defamation.

"I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate," Clinton said, speaking on a podcast with former Obama adviser David Plouffe. "She's the favorite of the Russians."
Clinton, in the same interview, suggested that person she was talking about was a "Russian asset," while not naming Gabbard.
When CNN asked Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill whether the former secretary of state was referring to Gabbard in the interview, Merrill said, "If the nesting doll fits" --- a reference to Russian nesting dolls.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/politics/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-lawsuit/index.html
 
BrooklynBaby said:
The left's big chance to prove its assertions about certain politicians being Russian assets is upon us! In an opening salvo, Tulsi Gabbard has sued Hillary for $50 million for defamation.

"I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate," Clinton said, speaking on a podcast with former Obama adviser David Plouffe. "She's the favorite of the Russians."
Clinton, in the same interview, suggested that person she was talking about was a "Russian asset," while not naming Gabbard.
When CNN asked Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill whether the former secretary of state was referring to Gabbard in the interview, Merrill said, "If the nesting doll fits" --- a reference to Russian nesting dolls.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/22/politics/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-lawsuit/index.html
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She's not alone.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
>snip<

*The outcome being that they did try to interfere in the election but hadn't affected the votes.
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Two falsehoods in one sentence:

1. Russia did't TRY to interfere; they did. That is well established.

2. There is no way to determine if Russian interference affected the votes or
not. It's impossible to identify how many voters fell victim to false
information spread by the Russian campaign and had it affect their vote.

Grizzly Bear said:
And outright denial and lack of action in responding to said threat during the 2016 election cycle to boot while the notion of it taking place was known behind the scenes, but never acted on...
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More falsehoods. The only person denying it was Trump. Obama was not so blind or stupid.

Top Obama administration officials issued repeated warnings to Russia to stop their interference in the US election. Obama said he himself told Russian President Vladimir Putin in September 2016 to ‘cut it out’, vowing “serious consequences” if he did not.

Obama administration officials sought support from bipartisan congressional leaders to send a letter to state governors to urge shoring up their defenses of election infrastructure. But, as reported by CNN in August 2017, they were rebuffed by Republican leaders, who viewed the request as partisan, according to current and former official briefed on the discussions.

The Obama administration subsequently issued a set of sanctions to punish Russia for its interference in the 2016 election and booted 35 Russian diplomats the US accused of being intelligence officers.
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/02/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-obama-did-nothing-russia/index.html

On the other hand, Trump repeatedly denied there was Russian interference in the election, said he had no reason to disbelieve Putin's denial, and balked at signing sanctions against Russia. From his 'perfect' phone call with Zelensky, it's obvious he's still reluctant to admit Russia was behind the election interference and wants to advance the debunked claim that Ukraine was behind it.

The President was reluctant to sign a Russia sanctions bill in 2017 that passed the Senate nearly unanimously, and his administration subsequently slow-walked the implementation of those sanctions, arguing the passage of the legislation was already having an impact on Russian companies. Republicans and Democrats alike have also worried that several of Trump’s foreign policy actions—from sowing divisions in the NATO alliance to withdrawing US troops from Syria—have benefited Russia.
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(same link as above)
 
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