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Is Primal Therapy woo?

Gnu Ordure said:
For example, all therapists give their clients/patients their undivided attention. And even if they do nothing else, if they just sit listening silently, but still paying attention, this may have a beneficial effect on the speaker.
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I once talked to a therapy-junkie who was at that time going to a therapist who did just that - simply sat in silence for the whole hour while the patient talked, cried, screamed, whatever; didn't react, didn't speak, didn't give any kind of feedback. The guy insisted that the sessions were doing him good! I didn't have a chance to meet the guy again, so I don't know if he got any long-term benefit out of it. I suspect he just moved along to the next highly-touted (and wealthy) therapist-guru.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
I skim read this for about 30 seconds and then i realised the author was talking about Freudian psychoanalysis being refined and scientifically tested as the basis for the scientific paradigm of psychotherapy.
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As bad as that sounds, it actually is worse than that! It's probably better for your blood pressure that you stopped reading, it goes on to criticise every psychotherapy apart from primal, many of which are much better than primal.
 
Keep an open mind on Primal therapy.

You might like to review the following link:

Google this: "understanding mental sickness" "Andrew Atkin"

This is not an easy therapy/theory to understand, on the face of it. There's a lot of claptrap being said about Primal Therapy. Going back into history, I personally have been amazed at the capacity of so-called experts to adamantly dismiss Primal theory/therapy which, by their own descriptions, they so obviously don't understand (at all!).

Also, the "debunking primal therapy" website has some major eyebrow-raising errors (of representation) which show me that whoever has written this is not interested in playing fair - they want to debunk Primal Therapy for the sake of it, and if a bit of b.s. helps that purpose then, for the author, that's obviously "all good". The website is also anonymous - why? Slander is still illegal?
 
Andrew4589 said:
You might like to review the following link:

Google this: "understanding mental sickness" "Andrew Atkin"

This is not an easy therapy/theory to understand, on the face of it. There's a lot of claptrap being said about Primal Therapy. Going back into history, I personally have been amazed at the capacity of so-called experts to adamantly dismiss Primal theory/therapy which, by their own descriptions, they so obviously don't understand (at all!).

Also, the "debunking primal therapy" website has some major eyebrow-raising errors (of representation) which show me that whoever has written this is not interested in playing fair - they want to debunk Primal Therapy for the sake of it, and if a bit of b.s. helps that purpose then, for the author, that's obviously "all good". The website is also anonymous - why? Slander is still illegal?
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My BS detector is starting to buzz.
 
Andrew4589 said:
You might like to review the following link:

Google this: "understanding mental sickness" "Andrew Atkin"

This is not an easy therapy/theory to understand, on the face of it. There's a lot of claptrap being said about Primal Therapy. Going back into history, I personally have been amazed at the capacity of so-called experts to adamantly dismiss Primal theory/therapy which, by their own descriptions, they so obviously don't understand (at all!).

Also, the "debunking primal therapy" website has some major eyebrow-raising errors (of representation) which show me that whoever has written this is not interested in playing fair - they want to debunk Primal Therapy for the sake of it, and if a bit of b.s. helps that purpose then, for the author, that's obviously "all good". The website is also anonymous - why? Slander is still illegal?
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Please ask Art to peddle his crap elsewhere. And ditto for his "minions." :D

I'm sorry if what you've read here clashes with what you've come to believe about PT. After being involved with something like that, it's difficult to orient oneself in the real world again. Difficult, but not impossible.

If PT has helped you, good on you. I know of too many it hasn't helped at all.

The criticisms aimed at PT apply to New Age "therapies" in general, so don't take it too personally. To some of us, PT came to resemble a cult created to glorify its creator, rather than help people cope in a scary world. Do some investigation of your own, and actually talk with some of the people for whom PT was a crazy nightmare they are happy to be rid of. Then come back and tell us how marvelous it is.


M.
 
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Primal Scream therapy is more widespread than most people realize. You can find it being practiced in large numbers at any major sporting event... :)

Seriously, they believe that Pain is an immaterial physical force that can be expelled from the body by screaming??? Or am I misunderstanding this?
 
Andrew4589 said:
You might like to review the following link:

Google this: "understanding mental sickness" "Andrew Atkin"

This is not an easy therapy/theory to understand, on the face of it. There's a lot of claptrap being said about Primal Therapy. Going back into history, I personally have been amazed at the capacity of so-called experts to adamantly dismiss Primal theory/therapy which, by their own descriptions, they so obviously don't understand (at all!).

Also, the "debunking primal therapy" website has some major eyebrow-raising errors (of representation) which show me that whoever has written this is not interested in playing fair - they want to debunk Primal Therapy for the sake of it, and if a bit of b.s. helps that purpose then, for the author, that's obviously "all good". The website is also anonymous - why? Slander is still illegal?
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I've read the site you recommend. I see lots of fancy words but no evidence which would confirm your claims about "primal scream therapy".

In the absence of any evidence I think I'll have to conclude you're merely spouting meaningless psycho-babble and new age claptrap dressed up to sound "scientific".

MtD
 
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Brian-M said:
Primal Scream therapy is more widespread than most people realize. You can find it being practiced in large numbers at any major sporting event... :)

Seriously, they believe that Pain is an immaterial physical force that can be expelled from the body by screaming??? Or am I misunderstanding this?
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If you delve into it far enough, you'll drown in woo. Generally, no lifesavers are provided.


M.
 
Andrew4589 said:
You might like to review the following link:

Google this: "understanding mental sickness" "Andrew Atkin"

This is not an easy therapy/theory to understand, on the face of it.
Click to expand...

It's not "an easy therapy to understand" period. Possibly because it has no backing from any accredited source whatsoever.

There's a lot of claptrap being said about Primal Therapy. Going back into history, I personally have been amazed at the capacity of so-called experts to adamantly dismiss Primal theory/therapy which, by their own descriptions, they so obviously don't understand (at all!).
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Oh. come on. You know you won't get away with such an assertion without citing credible evidence.

Also, the "debunking primal therapy" website has some major eyebrow-raising errors (of representation) which show me that whoever has written this is not interested in playing fair - they want to debunk Primal Therapy for the sake of it, and if a bit of b.s. helps that purpose then, for the author, that's obviously "all good". The website is also anonymous - why? Slander is still illegal?
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That it's anonymous seems reasonable, especially if the authors of the site wish to avoid a SLAPP suit.

Perhaps if you could show some actual, credible evidence of the efficacy of PT, you wouldn't get so much grief from the non-PT community.

(Private comment: You appear to be a poor apologist for PT. Perhaps you could tell us of your own particular experience of PT as I have done here.)


M.
 
Ok,

For a start, I don't necessarily believe that Janov's therpay is perfect or totally effective (I never said that), or even effective at all (within his clinic, which I myself have never attended). I know at least that PT doesn't work for everyone. It's difficult for me to site references (I'm not very good at keeping records), that's a given, especially considering that most of my understanding and perspective of mental sickness is ultimately based on what I have seen *directly* from myself and others (though yes, I have been very interested in Janov's helpful work which is, from my perspective, far more substantial that the the bulk of the theoretical trite out there).

The function of repression is very, very real from what I have seen. I know this first-hand though yes, I can't prove it to you without boring myself (and probably you) to death with many examples...and hey, how do you know I didn't make it all up? It's not easy to validate a reference - real world examples that you personally have had experience with is the *only* truly hard proof. I don't expect to be believed, and what I have written is largely theoretical, of course, and intended to be so.

Remember, I titled my post keep an open mind.. To damn Janov's work on unsubstantial grounds is just as unscientific and "religious" is to fall in love with it like a cult from a non-critical position. I, to the best of my ability at least, do not seriously believe *anything* until I can see it for myself, first hand.

I only suggested taking an objective position with this, for those inquisitive people not threatened by what might be true (obviously Janov says a lot of things that would make a heck of a lot of people uncomfortable).

And one more thing. The entire psychotherapy world is, in itself, a failure in terms of really dealing with mental sickness (unless you think that getting better is equatible to behaviour control. I for one certainly don't). The only reason why Janov has been so staunchly singled-out is because he claims to be able to do what others can't. Don't you find it incredible how people like Young have not been immediately humiliated by the psychology world? I suppose he was "out there" enough to not be a threat?

Write Janov off if you can - that is, on real, hard grounds. Until then, I suggest you keep an open (or should I say just rational) mind.

Have a nice day everyone.

Andrew
 
Andrew4589 said:
Ok,

For a start, I don't necessarily believe that Janov's therpay is perfect or totally effective (I never said that), or even effective at all (within his clinic, which I myself have never attended). I know at least that PT doesn't work for everyone. It's difficult for me to site references (I'm not very good at keeping records), that's a given, especially considering that most of my understanding and perspective of mental sickness is ultimately based on what I have seen *directly* from myself and others (though yes, I have been very interested in Janov's helpful work which is, from my perspective, far more substantial that the the bulk of the theoretical trite out there).

The function of repression is very, very real from what I have seen. I know this first-hand though yes, I can't prove it to you without boring myself (and probably you) to death with many examples...and hey, how do you know I didn't make it all up? It's not easy to validate a reference - real world examples that you personally have had experience with is the *only* truly hard proof. I don't expect to be believed, and what I have written is largely theoretical, of course, and intended to be so.

Remember, I titled my post keep an open mind.. To damn Janov's work on unsubstantial grounds is just as unscientific and "religious" is to fall in love with it like a cult from a non-critical position. I, to the best of my ability at least, do not seriously believe *anything* until I can see it for myself, first hand.

I only suggested taking an objective position with this, for those inquisitive people not threatened by what might be true (obviously Janov says a lot of things that would make a heck of a lot of people uncomfortable).

And one more thing. The entire psychotherapy world is, in itself, a failure in terms of really dealing with mental sickness (unless you think that getting better is equatible to behaviour control. I for one certainly don't). The only reason why Janov has been so staunchly singled-out is because he claims to be able to do what others can't. Don't you find it incredible how people like Young have not been immediately humiliated by the psychology world? I suppose he was "out there" enough to not be a threat?

Write Janov off if you can - that is, on real, hard grounds. Until then, I suggest you keep an open (or should I say just rational) mind.

Have a nice day everyone.

Andrew
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I will respond to this post after I have had a sleep, if you don't mind.


Right now, ancient Pink Floyd music has more credibility than "Primal Therapy." I accept that you may disagree.


Be back later,


M.
 
Andrew4589 said:
Ok,
Remember, I titled my post keep an open mind.. To damn Janov's work on unsubstantial grounds is just as unscientific and "religious" is to fall in love with it like a cult from a non-critical position. I, to the best of my ability at least, do not seriously believe *anything* until I can see it for myself, first hand.
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Ah. You might want to be careful there. A critical mind is far better than an open one. Open minds tend to accept all sorts of nonsense.

Have a nice day everyone.

Andrew
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You too Andrew.

MtD
 
Moochie said:
Right now, ancient Pink Floyd music has more credibility than "Primal Therapy."
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I trust you chose "Careful With That Axe, Eugene" - Waters didn't need no stinkin' woo therapy to scream like that. Art was good enough for him.

(If he had childhood traumas to exorcise, he damn well used them as the basis for a torturous two-disc concept album...)

Moochie said:
I think you really underestimate Lennon. Lennon's time with Janov was extremely short. John took what he wanted and moved on. If you know any "primal screamers," most have great difficulty in moving on. My take on it is that Lennon saw through this prick in 6/8 time.
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You're right on that, but I think you really overestimate Lennon. I'm a big fan of his, and I think that in many ways he was a really smart guy, but let's face facts: when it came to woo, he was a born sucker. Sure, he tended to move on pretty quickly, but that was usually because there was some other woo coming round the corner with an even newer, even shinier bunch of crap.
 
Not meaning to appear patronising, but I'll just say there's a difference between being open-minded and impressionable. Open-minded and critical are not necessarily antagonistic.
 
In case that was misinterpreted (happens all the time in the 'limited' text format!) I'll just say that I meant that in a light-hearted way - not contemptuous.
 
A more specific response:

I would be the first to agree that "new age" therapies have been destructive in many circumstances (and so have conventional therapies, for that matter). The real question I am interested in is as follows:

Is it possible, fundmentally, to integrate repressed pain in the that way Janov says it is? That is the really "big question". Is the premise of the regressive process a nonsense?

Janov's particular brand may not be perfect or ideal - I know. However, I personally have had a "primal" before I even heard of Primal therapy or Janov, and so has my mother as it happens (she re-expeienced being in hospital with her Polio condition at age 5 years, isolated from her family. She lost all her anxiety after this event, as she claims). And both my mother and myself had our experiences exactly as Janov describes how they naturally occur. Can I prove to you that I am not lying? No, unfortunately. But these events are absolutely real from my perspective (I was there!), and cannot be ignored.
 
Yes, and thanks for the direct link. I don't seem to able to do that yet.
 
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