Is ours a Christian civilization?

The popular notion that Christianity brought a dark age is false.

Yup! It certainly didn't bring it, but it certainly didn't seem all that interested in changing things, either. At worst, they can be accused of taking advantage of and exacerbating the situation, not actually causing it.

To note, though. I do find it amusing when the arguments for Christianity being the cause of everything good pointed out in the OP are used in RL. Yes, I've heard them and heard rationalizations for why they were like, totally true. Either way, it's hard to argue with faith.
 
Regarding the point about democracy, democracy as we use the word today is a very modern concept. For example in the UK democracy is less than a hundred years old, I still have living relatives that were born before we had democracy, so if it was Christianity that created democracy it took it a damn long time to get it organised!
 
Our modern society came to democracy *in spite* of Christianity like complexity said.

When we had feudalism course , I can remember the "3 third" society, each third representing the classes, but without hinting at the size. 1/3 was the religious power of priest cohabiting with the 1/3 aristocrat/king/court, and the last 1/3 were the rest scrapping by or being rich , but having no say.

Indeed the 1/3 religious justified the single authoritarian rules of kings as being designed from divine.
 
In recent years, theistic apologists, among them Rodney Stark and Dinesh D'Souza, have asserted that our Western Civilization is not only inherently Christian, but as well that all its great hallmarks derive specifically from Christianity. that is, democracy, capitalism, science and even romantic love are all part of Western Civilization thanks, specifically to Christianity.

Democracy was used by Athens, and other Greek city-states around 500BC and some elements of democracy were used even earlier in Mesopotamia, Phoenicia and India. So democracy does not derive from christianity.
 
Well... since I am a medieval scholar, I might as well try to help out a bit.

Again we have a subject in which we are trying to reduce a very complex situation into subjective dualism.

Obviously, Christianity had a tremendous influence on medieval (so to speak) civilizations in Europe and elsewhere. Despite claims to the contrary, that influence was not always negative, even though the negative influence could be remarkably destructive.

Much of the knowledge of the previous ages, particularly the Romans, was saved by a concerted effort by thousands of monks, constantly copying and recopying ancient documents. Most of the medieval texts I read tend to have been written by monks. During centuries of warfare and poverty, a lot more would have been lost.

However, the church, particularly the Roman Catholic Church, often also stood in stark opposition to science. I actually wrote a bit of a thesis in my third year (I think) about this duality. The church had a very conflicted view when it came to science. Some churchmen had a deep love of learning and a very inquisitive nature, in particular astronomy and mathematics but encompassing every field. The writings of the ancients was more precious to them than gold. Keep in mind the incredible depths of ignorance that existed at the time and how it must have felt to have a glimpse of a more enlightened world.

However, the ancients were pagans.. something that disturbed many churchmen greatly. Pagans were essentially devil worshipers in their view and to read their writing was to study the traps of Satan. Many churchmen actually considered new learning dangerous and probably a trap by the forces of evil. To them, the bible was the only book you ever needed to read.

It's of course quite a bit more complex, with individuals straying from the pack a considerable distance in either direction. Some churchmen were innovators in science, humanistic thought and sometimes even towards very modern ideals. Others displayed a vicious opposition to any deviation from doctrine, to a degree that can be quite astonishing. Try reading the "Malleus Maleficarum" if you want some scary bedtime reading.

The same applies to democracy. Of course democracy does not begin in the middle ages, and in fact the Catholic Church stood strongly against democracy pretty well from it's inception to the 20th century. However, a number of the ideas that form later on humanism do come from churchmen who espoused them and wrote about these thoughts at a time where few even knew how to read.

I think it's a huge mistake to demonize the church much as it's a mistake to ignore the horrible acts done in the name of God. Oversimplification is always a mistake when it comes to history.
 
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Most (feral) cats have fleas.

We don't credit the fleas with the magnificence of cats.

We recognize the fleas for the health-damaging annoying bloodsuckers that they are.

We do our best to kill the fleas.

The cat-flea thing isn't quite working for me. The cat didn't decide fleas created cats - unless - maybe "Jason and the Golden Fleece" was originally "Jason and the Golden Fleas"?

I like the medieval scholar's answer on account of he knows stuff. Didn't think about all those monks toiling to preserve Lucretius!
 
The cat-flea thing isn't quite working for me. The cat didn't decide fleas created cats - unless - maybe "Jason and the Golden Fleece" was originally "Jason and the Golden Fleas"?

I like the medieval scholar's answer on account of he knows stuff. Didn't think about all those monks toiling to preserve Lucretius!

Indeed. Such acts are why I didn't and don't completely condemn Christianity's actions during that time period. Preserving much of the knowledge, even if they didn't use it, is definitely a mark in their favor. It's countered, of course, by the amount that they likely destroyed, but the extent of that may be rather difficult to measure.
 

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