Is it wrong to buy a purebred puppy?

[Minoosh]

Um, 12,000 years = 12,000 generations. Did you see what the Russian researcher did with foxes in 40 years? Lap dogs, complete with black and white coloration.

It's the eugenics aspect, if that's what you want to call it, that makes me feel conflicted about dog "breeds."

One specific problem I've read about recently is with pugs, English bulldogs, Boston terriers etc. They're bred for the flat face and many can't breathe or vent heat properly. Also some Net sources are telling me that 86 percent of English bulldogs and 80 percent of French bulldogs are being born by C-section because their heads are too big to be safely birthed any other way.

Breeding a line of domesticated foxes seems ... wrong. But then dogs were bred for all sorts of traits, so I'm not drawing some clear line.

 

[Minoosh]

The biggest issue is they depreciate as soon as you get them out the door. I buy only used dogs

That's pretty funny, Bob.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm ashamed of some of my colleagues. These prices you quote are far far too high.

Most dogs needed more of the pills than most vets realised. The dose rate for a dog is a lot higher pro rata than the human dose on the packet. I've never ever seen an overdose in 30 years. Tragic when underdosing leads to a relapse, and of course some cases were very difficult to keep in balance. I'm really impressed by the Zycorten. I see checkups being boringly perfect now and that was seldom the case with Florinef.

 

[DragonLady]

Whether or not the place it's done qualifies as a "mill", deliberately inbreeding for the goal of maximizing deformities is still deliberately inbreeding for the goal of maximizing deformities.

Dogs are selectively bred to maximize traits seen as being desirable. Whether they're "deformities" is debatable unless they cause the dog discomfort or ill health.

Sadly, sometimes health problems do get maximized right along with the desirable traits, and it can be three generations or more before it becomes apparent.

When one does become an obvious issue, it will be selected against, and hopefully deprecated so it doesn't appear or isn't problematic any more.

 

[casebro]

It's the eugenics aspect, if that's what you want to call it, that makes me feel conflicted about dog "breeds."

One specific problem I've read about recently is with pugs, English bulldogs, Boston terriers etc. They're bred for the flat face and many can't breathe or vent heat properly. Also some Net sources are telling me that 86 percent of English bulldogs and 80 percent of French bulldogs are being born by C-section because their heads are too big to be safely birthed any other way.

....

And some need to be artificially inseminated, they can't physically do it right anymore. Ron White is a comedian, with an Englsh Bulldog. The chosen couple had already mated, but to make sure it takes, he was taking it to the vet for the um, 'specimen' donation. Vet says "Ron, you can do this your self", Ron says "no thanks, that dog follows him around too much now"

 

[mikado]

As awesome as it gets for a boy taken to the vet to be put down eleven years earlier.

Why? I don't understand people

 

[Rolfe]

"Bad skin. Sores under his elbows."

It was miliary eczema, caused by a severe allergy to flea bites. Got rid of the fleas and his skin and coat bloomed.

 

[paulhutch]

It's the eugenics aspect, if that's what you want to call it, that makes me feel conflicted about dog "breeds."
...
Breeding a line of domesticated foxes seems ... wrong. But then dogs were bred for all sorts of traits, so I'm not drawing some clear line.

The Silver Fox used in the still running experiment is commonly raised on fur farms. To me the experiment is less wrong than raising Silver Foxes as fur stock because of the valuable scientific knowledge gained on the domestication process.

 

[Fengirl]

Dogs are selectively bred to maximize traits seen as being desirable. Whether they're "deformities" is debatable unless they cause the dog discomfort or ill health..

Arguably, this is what happened to the Afghan Hound when the breed became popular from the 60's onwards. If you look at pictures of the breed as it originally was, say in the 20's and 30's, the Afghan was quite sparsely-coated (more like a Saluki) compared to what it later became, with a floor-length coat. The heavier and heavier coat was solely bred for aesthetic reasons, and whilst not exactly a "deformity", unless it was looked after diligently it certainly had the potential for causing the dog discomfort.

This is a 1929 photo of an Afghan hound:



The sire of my two Affies was this beautiful champion boy - Ch. Karaburan Pretty Boy Floyd - who was renowned for his heavy coat which his offspring inherited.



That coat is a friggin' nightmare to keep clean and matt-free. When we stopped showing and moved to the countryside, we made the decision to clip our dogs' coats so they could enjoy just being dogs without constant hassle. We basically clipped them back to a 1920's style. Clipping an Afghan's coat is seen as a pretty heretical thing to do - after all, why buy an Afghan if you're not prepared to look after the coat? But in the end, the joy of seeing them race around unhampered by all the hair was well worth the snotty disapproval of a few dog show acquaintances.

 

[DragonLady]

When we stopped showing and moved to the countryside, we made the decision to clip our dogs' coats so they could enjoy just being dogs without constant hassle. We basically clipped them back to a 1920's style.

I owned an afghan in my preteens, and kept her clipped. She was an awesome dog -and could run like the wind- and I agree that their coats are a nightmare if not kept brushed or clipped.

But, such is one of the considerations every dog owner should think over before buying -or breeding- any dog. They all have something that could be a downside if the owner isn't really prepared for it.

 

[Varanid]

...snipped...

Wow. Afghans aren't really my jam, but they are incredibly striking animals.

 

[Darat]

Here is Afghans from 1958 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MuQJ5jTYk

Some of the coat difference is down to grooming fashion, the extreme straight hair isn't really "natural" it's the result of brushing out the coat. But what I think the video helps show is what a more robust breed it used to be and look at the straight backs and no slope or rounded hips.

 

[CORed]

I have adopted rescue pets all my life, and frankly I feel like I'm due a nice, normal pet that doesn't have some permanent form of ptsd. Whether that animal is a thoroughbred or not is irrelevant to me. What really matters is that they have been treated gently, handled regularly, and weaned properly before I get them. No more adoption clinics or pound pets for me, I am done.

Good point. One of the problems with adopting rescue or shelter dogs is that very often the reason that they were given up is that the previous owner had no clue how to properly train and care for a dog. You often either end up with a completely uncivilized animal, in effect a fully grown puppy, or worse, the previous owner has resorted to abuse in their failed effort to train the dog, and the dog will have some serious psychological baggage as a result.

Raising a dog from a puppy has its own set of challenges. Puppies are cute as hell, but that's strictly a survival mechanism; their owners would surely kill them if they weren't so damn cute. Ideally, you should put all your furniture and carpeting in storage for a year or two, and replace it with cheap garage sale crap that you won't care when it gets destroyed, but that's not really practical for most people. OTOH if you start with a just-weaned puppy, your can make sure that it's trained the right way.

 

[CORed]

It's the eugenics aspect, if that's what you want to call it, that makes me feel conflicted about dog "breeds."

One specific problem I've read about recently is with pugs, English bulldogs, Boston terriers etc. They're bred for the flat face and many can't breathe or vent heat properly. Also some Net sources are telling me that 86 percent of English bulldogs and 80 percent of French bulldogs are being born by C-section because their heads are too big to be safely birthed any other way.

Breeding a line of domesticated foxes seems ... wrong. But then dogs were bred for all sorts of traits, so I'm not drawing some clear line.

Many of the flat-faced breeds can't swim, or more accurately, they can swim but they can't keep their nostrils above water.

When I was a kid we had a purebred Collie. Her muzzle and tongue were so narrow that she had a hard time drinking water. She would lap and lap, but most of the water ended up back in the bowl or on the floor.

 

[nota]

I like mixed dogs
my current dog is a GSD+chow breed with a lab

 

[carrps]

When I mention dachshunds are badger fighting dogs ... they look at me as crazy.

Everybody I tell this to also looks at me like I'm crazy. So many people think because doxies are small, they're purse dogs. Nuh uh. I grew up with the breed, and I'll always gravitate to them. They're just so full of personality.

But our current doxies were rescued, and that's the route I'll go from now on. With a specific breed its easier to predict good traits, and, sadly, problems. Dachshunds have physical issues that can potentially be very expensive.

 

[casebro]

Everybody I tell this to also looks at me like I'm crazy. So many people think because doxies are small, they're purse dogs....
.

Another breed ruined by modern breeding goals, they haven't hunted a badger since they weighed triple what they do now. 100 generations ago? see the wiki for they history, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachshund

The original German dachshunds were larger than the modern full-size variety, weighing between 14 and 18 kg (31 and 40 lb), and originally came in straight-legged and crook-legged varieties (the modern dachshund is descended from the latter). Though the breed is famous for its use in exterminating badgers and badger-baiting, dachshunds were also commonly used for rabbit and fox hunting, for locating wounded deer, and in packs were known to hunt game as large as wild boar and as fierce as the wolverine.

And what with their bred in health issues, another perverted breed.

At least with a mutt bred through a chain link fence, the chosen perversion stops with that generation. But then they all get surgically sterilized, the only next generation is pure breds with all the usual problems.

 

[lomiller]

My “lap” dog is a 2 year old 60lb Lab, I can’t sit at my computer without him trying crawl up on my lap. When I let him his sister gets jealous and eventually her knowing at him to get him to move or his paranoia about her stealing away affection from him ends with them playing/fighting under my feet.

Their mother was a hunting dog in a first nations community in Northern Canada, which is a whole different world wrt dogs. Feral dogs are common and it’s normal for people to just let their dogs outside without any type of fenced yard to wander the neighborhood the way some people do with cats. While she did some retrieving, mainly she was used to chase Moose of the islands and shorelines where the hunters can shoot them. Not hobby hunting, this is a primary food source for the community.

These two were small and sick so no one wanted them and they were being dropped off at a shelter in the city, which is better than the alternative I guess. I took one and a friend of mine took the other, I eventually ended up with both because the male kept wandering off his farmyard. Apparently Labs like to explore. It turned out both had tapeworms, which probably explains why they were not growing well. Both are now healthy and super happy, friendly and active maybe too much so.

 

[JoeMorgue]

- You can find pure breed dogs in shelters, with all the problems overbreeding to arbitrary standards may have.
- You can get mutts from crappy breeders. Hell if anything the "crappy backyard breeder" demographic right now seems to be largely focused on the "Made up" breeds that have become popular in the last few year, Labradoodles and Cockapoodles and all that jazz.
- "YOU MUST BY FROM A SHELTER OR YOU ARE THE DEVIL!" is silly because it's a solution that requires the problem it is solving to work; an excess of unwanted pets.

 

[Varanid]

- You can find pure breed dogs in shelters

How on earth could you tell if a dog is purebred without appropriate paperwork or documentation?

(Not that a piece of paper necessarily proves ancestry, but it's the best we've got...)