Is it cruel to keep pets?

[LibraryLady]

which we change the water of bi-weekly, and feel every other day.

I'm just puzzled as to why you feel it every other day.

 

[l0rca]

Oops. *Feed.

 

[1984]

Ask a farmer and a city dweller this.

Is it cruel to get your kids to help 'round up a sheep for slaughter when there isn't enough grass to feed the other sheep. Then ask the kids to eat that sheep for the night's supper when they're almost in shock at the matter of factness of it all. The kids are hungry and start to eat guiltily.

Not trying to be funny here.

 

[username]

Ask a farmer and a city dweller this.

Is it cruel to get your kids to help 'round up a sheep for slaughter when there isn't enough grass to feed the other sheep. Then ask the kids to eat that sheep for the night's supper when they're almost in shock at the matter of factness of it all. The kids are hungry and start to eat guiltily.

Not trying to be funny here.

I can relate, I am not, nor have ever been a farmer/raiser of livestock, but I have plenty of friends who relate their experiences to me.

In one such case a farmer has kids who are used to animal slaughter. However, this one particular goat has a personality that has endeared it to the children so it doesn't get slaughtered. Now, Dad would be just fine slaughtering it like the rest, but because the kids have a particular attraction to this one goat(sheep?) above all others the Dad spares it.

It has become a pet.

Things like this make me think of becoming a vegetarian. Everytime I think of becoming a vegetarian though, I go through the following thought process:

1. I don't like killing living, sentient things.
2. Purchasing the flesh of dead things that were living and sentient is morally the same as killing them myself.

From this I conclude I should be a vegetarian.

Then I counter my own argument with this:

1. If I wash my hands or shower I kill bacteria, living things ( dunno about the sentient part). If I take antibiotics I kill living things, both those that harm me as well as those which help me. If I drive my car long enough I run over an animal and kill or injure it.

2. Most everything that lives eats something else that is alive, most often before it is actually dead.

So, I am not a vegetarian, but I do, at times, struggle with the morality of being alive and sustaining my life the way I do.

 

[Jyera]

EGarret,
To have a pet die of old age is VERY good.
Many would have been abandon irresponsibily.

Here's a true story.
The BAD
An owner bought a husky probably for it's cool look. It is a shed-dog adapted to cold. And rear it in the small backyard of a hot equatorial island. The owner left for vacation without any care nor shelter for the dog. The dog died of heat exhaustion.

The Good
An owner of hamster, always open the door to the hamster's cage.
The hamster always do the daily routine of surveying the room, and always goes back to the cage.

The Beautiful.
A sparrow was found injuried in a backyard. It was nursed to good health.
When it was well. It comes back to the backyard often.

If you love your pet, let it go. If it comes back, it is yours.

It would probably make you feel better that your pet stayed because it liked to.
It was sad you didn't have the chance had to find that out. So the next time you have a new pet, you may like to see if you can give it a little more freedom when it is ready.

On the other hand, being a pet is sort of a job. I see the cockatiel "employed" in the local Zoo being placed out in the bare tree looking pretty and saying "Hello". Their wings were clipped but they could nevertheless walk away if it wanted. I would supposed you could clipped it's wing to prevent it from flying away too often. Just as employer requires you to work 8 to 5 daily.

Everyone of us working class are in a "cage". It would be nice to be out once in a while.

 

[EGarrett]

It was sad you didn't have the chance had to find that out. So the next time you have a new pet, you may like to see if you can give it a little more freedom when it is ready.

He was never technically a tame bird, meaning he wasn't adapted to contact with humans and wasn't supposed to leave his cage.

However, I did get him to eat from my hands several times and he didn't seem to mind. Though I never actually went the next step by letting him climb onto my hand or trying to pick him up.

And he did escape from his cage one time, when his old 'neighbor' (a tame Nanday Conure that my sister let walk around the room who passed away some time ago) somehow opened his door and sprung him.

She found him sitting on the windowsill which was by his cage. (and she obviously somehow got him back in the cage.) I thought about if there was any clue to his mental state there. He didn't seem to change personality much from his day of 'freedom.'

 

[Sandy M]

AH. well...... I have a horse. A "wild" (or more properly feral, since the Pzywalskii (sp?) horse is the only true "wild" horse), would roam over large swaths of land, grazing all day long. It would have tough, unshod feet. If male, would either fight for and tend its little harem, or be a "bachelor" male subsisting with other young males apart but peripheral to the herd. It would be the prey of wolves, mountain lions and man....

My spoiled beastie, on the other hand, has a stall and paddock. Gets fed regularly (which, sadly, in general can lead to digestive problems since horses are meant to walk and eat all day - so I try to see my horse has some hay in front of him at all times), gets his feet trimmed and shod every six weeks, and gets to "hang out" most of the day, working "for his living" on average an hour a day, maybe two to three hours a day on the weekends, when we ride in the state park. He is (an "ouch" for the guys here) a gelding. He's brushed and groomed daily. He's clipped and blanketed in winter. He gots LOTS of carrots and a warm bran mash (like cooked cereal) once a week.

Which lives the cruel life? The wild horse is free, but struggles for existence. The "pet" horse works (very little) for a living and is pampered, but lives a somewhat unnatural existence.

 

[Cleon]

I have two adorable, cute widdle fuzzy bunny rabbits.

Had they been brought up in the wild, they would have maybe 2-3 years of hopping around, foraging for food, freezing in the winter, and generally having a tough time of it before being torn apart by the jaws of a predator, shot by a hunter, and/or succombing to disease.

Now they live in an apartment that's heated in the winter and air conditioned in the summer, where they have their litter box changed, get lots of love, always have enough to eat, get taken to the vet if they get sick or injured, and (most importantly) get lots of nose-rubs and bunny treats.

Oh, and the only predator they have to worry about is the vacuum cleaner.

So I don't buy into the "keeping pets is cruel" bit.

 

[Dogdoctor]

Most of peoples horses and cows and pigs and rabbits and sheep and goats are domesticated. That is all fine. There are certain species of wild animals that are easy to care for and if you are only considering the cruelty issue then it is not cruel to keep them. Exotic birds are somewhat in that category. In some cases however your average person knows little about their care and often does a poor job. Turtles and fish come to mind in my practice.

 

[Jas]

There can instances where keeping pets is cruel. In the case of domestic animals, specifically the dog and cat they are adapted to living with humans and so what it takes to care for them is much less than a non domesticated animal.

To quote Antoine de Saint Exupery, "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed". As humans, we have domesticated certain animals, and because of that, have taken away or lessened many of their defensive mechanisms in order to make them into companions. In such a case, one cannot argue that keeping them as pets, a role in which over 5-10,000 years of selective breeding has prepared them for, is cruel.

We have a fish who has freakishly lived over a year in the same plastic .5 liter container, which we change the water of bi-weekly, and feel every other day.

I feel bad for it.

Then...why don't you move it into a proper container with plants and filter? Obviously you don't feel that bad about it if you aren't doing anything to improve its situation.

There are certain species of wild animals that are easy to care for and if you are only considering the cruelty issue then it is not cruel to keep them. Exotic birds are somewhat in that category. In some cases however your average person knows little about their care and often does a poor job. Turtles and fish come to mind in my practice.

The vast majority of people do NOT know how to care for exotic animals. Some snakes are quite easy (such as CB ball pythons and corn snakes), but others require specialized care, such as very specific heat & humidity requirements (to name but a few, and this isn't getting into supplements and picky eaters).

I can't recall ever getting exotic animals coming into the shelter in good shape. They often required months of specialized care to bring them back to health, or were euthanized. A large part of this is lack of research, and availability of care information.

Iguanas would be a good example of this. People don't realize when they see the babies at the petstore, that they grow to be over 6 feet long, and need,at minimum, a room sized enclosure. They can be mean buggers as well, and need a constant supply of fresh veggies (although I don't know what some of the newer prepackaged food is like).

Even the easier to care for reptiles, like ball pythons, can still suffer from stuff like retained eyecaps, which, if you don't know what to look for, can result in massive infections.

Overall, there's nothing cruel in keeping pets, as long as you keep them well.

 

[El Greco]

Was Kaspar Hauser unhappy in his dungeon ?

 

[Soapy Sam]

EGarret,

Everyone of us working class are in a "cage". It would be nice to be out once in a while.

OI! What's this "us working class" stuff, you old Bolshevik agitator?

I'll have you know I'm a blue blooded aristocrat.

I'm just working undercover.

They let me out for Christmas, if I behave!

 

[Kopji]

The little fishes brains are very small, swimming around in a tiny bowl is a wonderful new world every few inches of swimming or so. I hear that fish live longer if they have a place to hide. It is good to change the water or it becomes toxic. Fish are sensitive to rapid temperature changes.

There may be studies on this somewhere, but pets may be happier if allowed to follow their nature a little. Let dogs sniff butts once in a while. My cats love to hunt grasshoppers in the yard, and it really saves on catfood.
I saw someone carry their cockatel on their shoulder to a local swimming hole. I'd be a little worried about local predators tho...

I had a white rat when I was a kid that was a nice pet. Very playful and clean, not picky about what it ate.

 

[Kopji]

There's a large open range between here and Phoenix where local ranchers put their horses out for winter pasture. Probably a few wild ones mixed in. The horses seem to do better with some free range time.

There is nothing quite like seeing several horses running alongside your car (just on the other side of the fence) for a few moments as you head down the freeway.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I think it depends on how you keep the pets.

Obviously keeping a bird in a cage all of his life is pretty cruel in my opinion.Even if he's well fed.
Would you want to be kept in a 30x30 foot enclosure all of your life if you were guaranteed saftey,food and a long life? I would not.

Keeping pets itself is not cruel. Most pets could not possibly survive in the wild due to their selective breeding. Poodles for example.

 

[username]

Keeping pets itself is not cruel. Most pets could not possibly survive in the wild due to their selective breeding. Poodles for example.

I believe you mean miniature poodles rather than standard poodles. If we are refering to those stupid, tiny little ever barking piles of afro fur fit only to be punted like a football then I agree, such creatures are unfit for survival on their own.

Interestingly though these worthless furballs are not the product of evolution or natural selection, but the result of human breeding to make a designer pet. We succeeded, kind of. I hate those stupid footballs, but I realize that my fellow humans created them by highly selective breeding and they now exist, as pathetic as they are.

So, they exist. What does your personal ethic system tell you is your responsibility toward them, if anything?

Me, I would rather punt them out the window of a 2 zillioneth story room than suffer their pathetic neediness and worthlessness. I despise manufactured toy dogs. I mean I really, really get mean spirited when I encounter them. I simply wish to kick all of them to the moon.

At the same time it isn't their fault for being what they are. There is no god to blame for creating them either. We, humans, created them.

And this, all by itself, is a terrific argument against cloning. I mean for Jebus sake if we can't even make a half way decent dog we have no business making people that we have to tolerate. Who wants to clone the average joe? nobody. Everyone wants to clone either Hitler or Jesus and I don't think I could stand to be in the room with either.

 

[RandFan]

Great thread. Great responses.

I grew up on a farm and I don't have any pets. Not that I'm against owning pets or that I wouldn't want one but simply because I don't feel that I or anyone in my family is willing to give the time and effort to care for a pet.

Love is NOT enough. Pets require responsibility. Please don't get a pet if you are not willing to take it to a vet when it gets sick. Get it spayed or neutered when appropriate. Provide attention, adequate food, water and shelter. If there is any possibility that you will neglect your pet please buy a good book and donate some money to animal shelters.

DON'T buy an exotic pet if you simply think it is a cool idea. Find out how much effort the animal will require and think long and hard before plunking the money down on a pet that is going to require a lot of responsibility and you tire of it and drop it off in a field somewhere.

Ok, that is my lecture.

Those of you who love your pets and care for them are super cool. Animals and humans can go good together. Today I was sitting at a desk performing an audit. Next to me in a chair sat large dog patiently awaiting his owner. A few minutes before the truck pulled into the driveway the dog bounded up and began pacing. When the gentleman opened the door the dog greeted him warmly. It made my day.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I believe you mean miniature poodles rather than standard poodles. If we are refering to those stupid, tiny little ever barking piles of afro fur fit only to be punted like a football then I agree, such creatures are unfit for survival on their own.

Interestingly though these worthless furballs are not the product of evolution or natural selection, but the result of human breeding to make a designer pet. We succeeded, kind of. I hate those stupid footballs, but I realize that my fellow humans created them by highly selective breeding and they now exist, as pathetic as they are.

So, they exist. What does your personal ethic system tell you is your responsibility toward them, if anything?

Me, I would rather punt them out the window of a 2 zillioneth story room than suffer their pathetic neediness and worthlessness. I despise manufactured toy dogs. I mean I really, really get mean spirited when I encounter them. I simply wish to kick all of them to the moon.

At the same time it isn't their fault for being what they are. There is no god to blame for creating them either. We, humans, created them.

And this, all by itself, is a terrific argument against cloning. I mean for Jebus sake if we can't even make a half way decent dog we have no business making people that we have to tolerate. Who wants to clone the average joe? nobody. Everyone wants to clone either Hitler or Jesus and I don't think I could stand to be in the room with either.

We breed them the way we wanted them. There are dozens of other dog breeds that came from selective breeding other than minateur poodles.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I believe you mean miniature poodles rather than standard poodles. If we are refering to those stupid, tiny little ever barking piles of afro fur fit only to be punted like a football then I agree, such creatures are unfit for survival on their own.

Interestingly though these worthless furballs are not the product of evolution or natural selection, but the result of human breeding to make a designer pet. We succeeded, kind of. I hate those stupid footballs, but I realize that my fellow humans created them by highly selective breeding and they now exist, as pathetic as they are.

So, they exist. What does your personal ethic system tell you is your responsibility toward them, if anything?

Me, I would rather punt them out the window of a 2 zillioneth story room than suffer their pathetic neediness and worthlessness. I despise manufactured toy dogs. I mean I really, really get mean spirited when I encounter them. I simply wish to kick all of them to the moon.

At the same time it isn't their fault for being what they are. There is no god to blame for creating them either. We, humans, created them.

And this, all by itself, is a terrific argument against cloning. I mean for Jebus sake if we can't even make a half way decent dog we have no business making people that we have to tolerate. Who wants to clone the average joe? nobody. Everyone wants to clone either Hitler or Jesus and I don't think I could stand to be in the room with either.

We breed them the way we wanted them. There are dozens of other dog breeds that came from selective breeding other than minateur poodles.

 

[LibraryLady]

Great thread. Great responses.

DON'T buy an exotic pet if you simply think it is a cool idea. Find out how much effort the animal will require and think long and hard before plunking the money down on a pet that is going to require a lot of responsibility and you tire of it and drop it off in a field somewhere.

Interestingly, budgies are considered exotics. I inherited my first budgie from my niece, and helped her to do all the research involved before it was adopted. Then, a few years later when she rescued an abused kitten at a party while in college and decided to keep it, I took the little bird. Or, of course, she gave me the bird. So I had the research all squared away. If I didn't, I would have had a hard time figuring out what the little guy was doing every time he regurgitated on my hand. He was demonstrating he could feed our children.

But Randfan is right. Even for a domesticated pet, research, research, research. Go to the library or get on the 'net. Otherwise, you could wind up being accidentally cruel.

Incidentally, look at this. Breaks my heart.