Is Hunger Calorie or Volume Determined?

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I know early settlers seemed to resort to eating all sorts of inedible things due to their starvation, which would support physical and not metabolic satiation. That is an extreme case, but the idea could translate to the opposite condition of surplus. That is, eating high volume, low calorie foods to "trick" the body.

Obviously, I am not the first person to think of this. But my Googling leads to... unreliable sources. Obviously the two are greatly overlapped, so there is perhaps not much utility in the notion even if correct.

I also recall that there are calorie negative foods, which I am guessing are too minor to make a significant dent for anti-obesity dieting, but I think those wouldn't make one hungrier .

Tangentially related, I also thought about nutritional density, but that was more concerning limited income diets, and I see websites of poor repute have already stolen my idea .

 

[epepke]

Both.

There are pressure-sensing nerves in the stomach that make people hungry when the stomach isn't filled. Back in the 1970s, many OTC diet aids were local anesthetics in pill form to dull the stomach from these sensations. These are no longer sold. Instead, they're mostly antihistamines.

 

[JJM 777]

Some foods, such as apple, are said to prevent the feeling of hunger. So you can fool the stomach by volume, or by certain ingredients regardless of volume. Or then just by concentrating on some interesting task such as playing basketball.

But in the end your body needs energy, so the above mentioned tricks help to eat less during the day without feeling hungry, not to spend a day without eating at all without feeling hungry.

 

[Zelenius]

I know early settlers seemed to resort to eating all sorts of inedible things due to their starvation, which would support physical and not metabolic satiation. That is an extreme case, but the idea could translate to the opposite condition of surplus. That is, eating high volume, low calorie foods to "trick" the body.

Obviously, I am not the first person to think of this. But my Googling leads to... unreliable sources. Obviously the two are greatly overlapped, so there is perhaps not much utility in the notion even if correct.

I also recall that there are calorie negative foods, which I am guessing are too minor to make a significant dent for anti-obesity dieting, but I think those wouldn't make one hungrier .

Tangentially related, I also thought about nutritional density, but that was more concerning limited income diets, and I see websites of poor repute have already stolen my idea .

In my non-expert opinion, it's a mixture of both. Both protein and fiber can help you feel full. Fat also helps. I don't know about any specific research in this area, so I'll just use my personal anecdotes. On a bunch of occasions, I've had very large meals of low calorie meals consisting mostly of raw vegetables, and it didn't take long for me to be hungry again(less than an hour). I've done the same thing with large fruit salads and the same thing happened.

On the other hand, eating a bunch of relatively high calorie energy bars similarly resulted in hunger in a short period of time. I generally do not get hungry soon after eating regular, well-proportioned meals though.

I think your best bet to feel full and not go hungry due to lack of calories or volume is to get sufficient calories along with a lot of volume. I think this may be why oatmeal(not the instant kind) is so filling. It has plenty of calories(and significant protein) and also absorbs a lot of water, so it has a lot of volume. I get a similar feeling eating buckwheat. Wholegrains will fill you up faster than refined grains due to their higher amount of protein and fiber; I can eat more white rice than brown rice for this reason.

I am one of those very few people who could stand to gain a few lbs, and it seems that quickly getting full on volume prevents me from getting enough calories to put on some weight. I can only drink so much juice or protein drinks.

 

[rjh01]

Sometimes when I feel hungry I am actually thirsty, so drinking water helps. This contains 0 energy.

 

[icerat]

all of the above, plus hormones released as the food moves through the digestive system.

Takes about 20 minutes for this to happen, so if it's taken less than 20 minutes to eat and you're still hungry .... wait before you go for seconds!

 

[Kaylee]

In my non-expert opinion, it's a mixture of both. Both protein and fiber can help you feel full. Fat also helps. I don't know about any specific research in this area, so I'll just use my personal anecdotes. On a bunch of occasions, I've had very large meals of low calorie meals consisting mostly of raw vegetables, and it didn't take long for me to be hungry again(less than an hour). I've done the same thing with large fruit salads and the same thing happened.

On the other hand, eating a bunch of relatively high calorie energy bars similarly resulted in hunger in a short period of time. I generally do not get hungry soon after eating regular, well-proportioned meals though.
<snip>

That's my experience also, if I also avoid refined grains and foods with added sugar.

(Those two types of foods cause me to get extremely hungry. The refined grains and added sugar is not a universal issue though. I know several people that can eat a lot of those kinds of foods and not gain weight. People's mileage do vary -- for others very salty foods will trigger an out of control appetite. Salty foods are also not a universal trigger. I'm just mentioning those things because while they are off topic as far as calories and volume goes -- they are on topic as far as how to manage one's appetite. IMHO, it's helpful to notice when you feel hungry and to try to figure out why. That can help you get rid of any triggers that may result in overeating. Or in Zelunius case, he may want to set up more "triggers" so he can gain weight. )

--

In my effort to lose weight I've read a few books about dieting and some common ideas that come up to help manage appetite is to not only eat foods that are bulky and low in calories (which includes many vegetables and fruits) but to also go for a variety of tastes and textures. Obviously if one does that one also increases the odds that they are getting a well balanced diet. Whether getting a well balanced diet is enough to prevent one from getting hungry or if it also really matters if one is getting a variety of tastes and textures would be an interesting study. (E.g. set up two groups of people and make sure that they get the same macro and micro nutrients. One group gets it in the form of tasty meals and snacks and the other one gets it in the form of some monotonous lab generated glop. Sit back and wait to see if any appetite control issues develop. )

Regardless, eating a variety of foods with different tastes and textures is a pleasurable way to help ensure that one is eating healthily.

I think your best bet to feel full and not go hungry due to lack of calories or volume is to get sufficient calories along with a lot of volume. <snip>

Agreed.

 

[MG1962]

Sometimes when I feel hungry I am actually thirsty, so drinking water helps. This contains 0 energy.

There is an old dieting trick to have a glass of water before a meal to help with portion control.

 

[casebro]

There is also the body's habits. Like production of prancreatic excretions at a regular time for meals.

"Eating is just a habit. You can changes habits" is the way one M.D. put it to me. And that idea has worked for me.

 

[Meed]

I would really like to see experiments showing which (if any) of these "tricks" work and to what extent.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Both.

There are pressure-sensing nerves in the stomach that make people hungry when the stomach isn't filled. Back in the 1970s, many OTC diet aids were local anesthetics in pill form to dull the stomach from these sensations. These are no longer sold. Instead, they're mostly antihistamines.

That would explain why antihistamines kill my appetite so thoroughly.

 

[Beerina]

Sometimes when I feel hungry I am actually thirsty, so drinking water helps. This contains 0 energy.

This. At least one study showed a lot of times when people eat, they're doing so in response to the thirst rather than hunger.

If you're tummy is rumbling, it's hunger. Otherwise have a drink and give it 10 minutes.




There is another diet out there which I have never tried, where you basically swill a tablespoon of vegetable oil about an hour before you eat. It's supposed to greatly lessen your desire to overeat when you actually do eat. The downside is it's completely gross.

It's probably in effect not so magical, and rather just more akin to having 6 small meals through the day.

 

[Zelenius]

That's my experience also, if I also avoid refined grains and foods with added sugar.

(Those two types of foods cause me to get extremely hungry. The refined grains and added sugar is not a universal issue though. I know several people that can eat a lot of those kinds of foods and not gain weight. People's mileage do vary -- for others very salty foods will trigger an out of control appetite. Salty foods are also not a universal trigger. I'm just mentioning those things because while they are off topic as far as calories and volume goes -- they are on topic as far as how to manage one's appetite. IMHO, it's helpful to notice when you feel hungry and to try to figure out why. That can help you get rid of any triggers that may result in overeating. Or in Zelunius case, he may want to set up more "triggers" so he can gain weight. )

Whatever your goals are, I hope you succeed! I can relate to some of what you go through. Foods with significant added sugars have been known to cause me to binge, but I eat them so rarely. I don't even like the taste, it's usually unpalatable to me. I find the taste of tomato sauce with added sugar particularly offensive. I swear it tastes like candy. A lot of things taste "too sweet" to me, but I do occasionally get a sweet tooth, especially after vigorous exercise.

Refined grain as bread or in the form of pasta doesn't cause me any problems unless I eat it with little else. Mixing low-calorie vegetables, beans/tofu, olive oil and spice with refined pasta doesn't cause me any issues, probably because I am diluting the glycemic index of the meal. If I eat refined pasta with just basic marinara sauce, I tend to get hungry soon after and may binge on junk(potato chips or lots of dried fruit). On the other hand, I seem to have a strange, sort of allergic reaction to whole grain pasta.

I actually have a perfectly healthy weight(although my family and some friends insist I am "too skinny"). If I gained a few lbs, it wouldn't be a bad thing though, except that it may slow down my running. I currently eat a vegan diet since I never liked meat, and I am allergic to dairy. I used to eat eggs a few times a week until recently, but the extreme summer heat(I don't have an AC) over here just started to make them very unappetizing. In fact, my entire appetite isn't what it used to be, largely due to the heat.

Vigorous exercise can help suppress the appetite in many people. I know it does this to me. In fact, back when I injured my leg a few months ago and couldn't run like I usually do, I got these terrible cravings for junk and would binge on a regular basis. Yet I gained no weight probably because of how much I fidget and all the juggling I do.

I also find that exercise doesn't just make me eat less, but somehow makes me eat healthier - more vegetables, salads, less salty foods, no foods with refined sugars, etc. I do get a lot of fat though, but mostly from nuts and olive oil.

I eat raw, unsalted sunflower seeds almost every day, often for breakfast along with bread and some vegetables. A bowl of them is very filling and delicious(or sometimes peanut butter or tahini). A lot of people get fooled by their size into thinking they can't be that nutritious. I think they are one of the most underrated foods - they are a good source of protein, have healthy fats, contain some vitamins and minerals and are a good source of fiber. They are usually very cheap too. I've set athletic records on days I had mostly sunflower seeds for breakfast.

Some weight-conscious people are afraid to eat nuts because they are full of fat. This may be true for nuts that have added oil or sugar(which I never eat). But raw, minimally processed nuts are really healthy. Nuts do not generally promote weight gain - Go nuts on your diet!. Besides that link, there are other studies showing that people who eat the most nuts are slimmer than those who eat the least. The nut fiber prevents some of the fat from getting absorbed. Some nuts are also loaded with phytonutrients that are similar to the ones in dark green vegetables which may help prevent disease.

I am not advocating a vegan diet here. But eating less meat and dairy and filling up on nuts, legumes, fresh vegetables and fruits, can probably help people lose weight. Of course, along with regular exercise(30 minutes a day), and drinking a lot of water to reduce cravings(I find this helps me too). And avoiding those refined sugars.

 

[Dr. Imago]

all of the above, plus hormones released as the food moves through the digestive system.

Bingo.

~Dr. Imago

 

[blutoski]

I think the OP might have intended to ask the opposite question: "Is satiety determined by calories or volume?"

There is significant research showing that it's a combination of factors, unfortunately. Another is the type of calories (protein, fats, carbohydrates) and the presence of soluble fibre. There is also a sensory component, which means the smell and texture of food impacts its capacity for satiety. Variety in smell or flavour reduces satiety for what would technically be the same quantity of calories or volume.

Useful references:

• Appetite^WP
• Sensory-specific satiety^WP
• Pubmed: [A satiety index of common foods.]
• Nutrition Data: [UNDERSTANDING HUNGER AND SATIETY]

Please also observe the list of references at the bottom of that last link.

 

[Kaylee]

Whatever your goals are, I hope you succeed!

Thanks! I have lost 40 lbs since the beginning of this year. Actually to be precise I have lost 42 lbs since December 26th. I've been up and down the weight scale a few times and I decided to give it another try and started my New Year's resolution a little early. In order for me to loose weight, and to keep it off, I have to get very analytical and detailed oriented about it complete with a daily journal of everything that I eat. I'd much prefer not to think about it, but when I do that the weight comes back very quickly.

I can relate to some of what you go through. Foods with significant added sugars have been known to cause me to binge, but I eat them so rarely. I don't even like the taste, it's usually unpalatable to me. I find the taste of tomato sauce with added sugar particularly offensive. I swear it tastes like candy. A lot of things taste "too sweet" to me, but I do occasionally get a sweet tooth, especially after vigorous exercise.

Refined grain as bread or in the form of pasta doesn't cause me any problems unless I eat it with little else. Mixing low-calorie vegetables, beans/tofu, olive oil and spice with refined pasta doesn't cause me any issues, probably because I am diluting the glycemic index of the meal. If I eat refined pasta with just basic marinara sauce, I tend to get hungry soon after and may binge on junk(potato chips or lots of dried fruit). On the other hand, I seem to have a strange, sort of allergic reaction to whole grain pasta.

I actually have a perfectly healthy weight(although my family and some friends insist I am "too skinny"). If I gained a few lbs, it wouldn't be a bad thing though, except that it may slow down my running. I currently eat a vegan diet since I never liked meat, and I am allergic to dairy. I used to eat eggs a few times a week until recently, but the extreme summer heat(I don't have an AC) over here just started to make them very unappetizing. In fact, my entire appetite isn't what it used to be, largely due to the heat.

Vigorous exercise can help suppress the appetite in many people. I know it does this to me. In fact, back when I injured my leg a few months ago and couldn't run like I usually do, I got these terrible cravings for junk and would binge on a regular basis. Yet I gained no weight probably because of how much I fidget and all the juggling I do.

I also find that exercise doesn't just make me eat less, but somehow makes me eat healthier - more vegetables, salads, less salty foods, no foods with refined sugars, etc. I do get a lot of fat though, but mostly from nuts and olive oil.

I eat raw, unsalted sunflower seeds almost every day, often for breakfast along with bread and some vegetables. A bowl of them is very filling and delicious(or sometimes peanut butter or tahini).

<snip>

But raw, minimally processed nuts are really healthy. Nuts do not generally promote weight gain - Go nuts on your diet!. Besides that link, there are other studies showing that people who eat the most nuts are slimmer than those who eat the least. The nut fiber prevents some of the fat from getting absorbed. Some nuts are also loaded with phytonutrients that are similar to the ones in dark green vegetables which may help prevent disease.

I am not advocating a vegan diet here. But eating less meat and dairy and filling up on nuts, legumes, fresh vegetables and fruits, can probably help people lose weight. Of course, along with regular exercise(30 minutes a day), and drinking a lot of water to reduce cravings(I find this helps me too). And avoiding those refined sugars.

Thanks for posting! Last week I picked up some sunflower seeds and I really like them. It's also interesting that you mentioned legumes and nuts and vegetables for breakfast. This is the fastest that I ever lost weight and I attribute it partially to these habits --

1) I eat vegetables at every meal, including breakfast. When I have time I prefer greens (collard greens, swiss chard, etc); a batch will last a few days in the fridge. Other times I have a tossed salad or perhaps I'll steam a bag of chopped frozen veggies which takes no time at all (or at least no active prep time). (I still have cereal and an egg or yogurt also. Breakfast is my largest meal -- at least in terms of the amount of food I eat if not in calories.)

2) Eat at least one piece of fruit every day.

3) Either lunch or dinner is usually a legume/grain combo.

4) I eat up to 4T of nuts/seeds per day. Half of it is ground flaxseed, 1 T twice a day, and the other half I rotate between almonds, walnuts and now sunflower seeds.

5) No refined grains and I only eat whole grains at meal times. I got that idea from reading other countries' nutritional guidelines. I was curious to see what was recommended by other countries whose average BMI is lower that the USA's. I only understand English, and Google translate plus my patience only goes so far -- but I assume that this works because it reduces the glycemic load of grains which can apparently be pretty high.

6) Very rarely have any added sugar -- not even in my coffee. I use cinnamon or cinnamon and a smidge of cayenne pepper instead.

So it seems when I do well in terms of losing weight or keeping it off, my eating habits are similar in many ways to how you eat although I do drink milk and also eat meat, fish or poultry about once a day.

I just have to figure out how to get more active. My knees are shot so that rules out a lot of things. I sort of stumbled into yoga -- its obviously not a good aerobic exercise but it does help strengthen the muscles.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

I just have to figure out how to get more active. My knees are shot so that rules out a lot of things. I sort of stumbled into yoga -- its obviously not a good aerobic exercise but it does help strengthen the muscles.

Have you considered swimming? Swimming laps is practically zero impact and if you do it right is very aerobic.

 

[Beerina]

There's a diet where you eat a tablespoon of vegetable oil an hour before you eat and works on the energy level theory.

Supposedly effective but very hard to do as it's completely gross. YMMV, never tried it.

 

[ZirconBlue]

6) Very rarely have any added sugar -- not even in my coffee. I use cinnamon or cinnamon and a smidge of cayenne pepper instead.

I've heard that cinnamon helps reduce blood-sugar spikes, but have not researched this claim extensively.

 

[Kaylee]

I've heard that cinnamon helps reduce blood-sugar spikes, but have not researched this claim extensively.

I heard that also and that is where I got the idea to start using it. At first I added both cinnamon and sugar to my coffee and also some of my cereals. I kept cutting back on the sugar until it was eliminated almost entirely. That was not my original intention. I did intend to cut back on the sugar but I never thought I would eliminate it almost entirely. But as I cut back on it, I started to enjoy other flavors much more.

I grew up in a family that thought Frosted Flakes was healthy and I use to put at least 3 heaping teaspoons of sugar in my many cups of coffee every day. Probably a tablespoon and a half per cup? I had a real sweet tooth and I never thought that I would lose it, but thankfully I did.

I occasionally still have hot chocolate or chocolate milk and I'll still use sugar along with a smidge of cinnamon and cayenne pepper. Chocolate is very bitter so its almost impossible for me to have any without it.

But regardless as to whether cinnamon actually reduces sugar spikes it started me on the road to sharply reducing sugar in my diet, so for me it was a good thing.

Last Dec, Jan I was researching different foods and spices like mad -- but unfortunately I didn't take good notes. If I liked what I read, I worked the food/spice into my diet. If I didn't like what I read -- I avoided it. I can only assume that I probably read a few abstracts on pubmed about cinnamon at the time and thought that those conclusion sounded very plausible.

I've made a few changes in my diet since the beginning of the year, but I don't always remember exactly what the reason was for each change. Wish I had a photographic memory or was better at keeping notes.

But the good news is that I just lost another pound today, so my weight loss is now up to 43 lbs this year!