Is ESP More Probable Than Advanced Alien Life?

Slowvehicle said:
Oh. See, I thought you were claiming that there had to be some as-yet-undiscovered force or carrier particle that would support the claimed effects of "remote viewing", or "telepathy", or "ESP". Carroll's talk addresses that.
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Yes, I read those links. They were interesting. I don't necessarily share the author's optimism. He reminds me of people 30 years ago who were sure the universe would eventually contract.

I don't propose to know how ESP might work. I only suppose that it's physically possible and the odds of it being physically possible or impossible cannot be determined. ESP may indeed be physically impossible, but that is also true of alien life (if Earth occupies a unique place in the universe).
 
Giordano said:
Exactly. And life in the universe (on Earth) we know can happen; ESP we have never ever seen. The exact probabilities can not be calculated in detail, but clearly are not the same. We know this much.
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We have never ever seen alien life either.

I'll grant you that life on Earth suggests that alien life is possible, but until we find actual alien life, we can't use Earth to confirm the existence of alien life. Only that it's possible.
 
Fudbucker said:
The question is, how special is Earth? Impossible to tell until we discover alien life. It's possible we occupy a unique place in the universe. The probability cannot be calculated, at this point. If you don't agree, then I want to see your probability calculus for why it's improbable that Earth occupies a unique spot in the universe (as far as the conditions for life are concerned).
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Water is everywhere. The molecular components of amino acids are everywhere. Amino acids themselves are incredibly easy to make. We've found them on asteroids and comets, even, and we've discovered that some of them can survive the impact of that rock into a planet.

Phospholipid bilayers form readily... You know what, I'll let someone else explain how easy abiogenesis is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdozVq81gog

Is there any evidence at all that ESP exists anywhere? Is there any scientific theory that requires it? Is there even a theory that allows it to exist? Is there any evidence that its probability is greater than zero?

All positive numbers are greater than zero, by definition. Redefine and move goal posts all you want. The probability of life in the universe is greater than the zero probability of psychic powers.
 
see the KGB video with eyes wide open...and numbers don't actually exist...they are an illusion....
 
zengirl said:
I don't see your mind, ergo you have none...
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Visibility is not one of the properties of a mind.

A mind's ability to convey logically consistent and demonstrable points is one of its properties. In your next post, please demonstrate such a property.
 
zengirl said:
I love your special highlights! :) Where is the proof that numbers exist?
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Point your left pointer finger. How many fingers is that?

Also point your left middle finger. How many fingers are pointing now?
 
zengirl said:
see the KGB video with eyes wide open...and numbers don't actually exist...they are an illusion....
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So are many attempts at humor. They might be funny only in the mind of one individual, and not funny for most everyone else.
 
zengirl said:
I don't see your mind, ergo you have none...
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Is your argument, then, reduced to impersonal insults?

Instead, I suggest you use that effort:

1...marshaling evidence (practical, empirical, non-anecdotal evidence) for your claims, and,

2...learning to use the "quote' function, so that it is clear to whom you are responding.
 
Fudbucker said:
Can you give an example of two events whose probabilities cannot be calculated, but where one event is more likely than the other? I already gave an example in support of my premise. I'm curious to see what a counter example would look like.
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You've just quoted my example in support of that premise
... given the existence of life here, the hypothesis that it exists elsewhere is more plausible than the hypothesis that ESP, never reliably observed at all, exists anywhere. I think that's good reasoning; but it implies that we can assign relative probabilities without being able to put a figure on either. We can reasonably deny that they are equally likely, even though the probability of neither can be calculated.
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he said he hasn't seen alien life so they don't exist, can't see a mind, anyone's either...
 
Fudbucker said:
We have never ever seen alien life either.

I'll grant you that life on Earth suggests that alien life is possible, but until we find actual alien life, we can't use Earth to confirm the existence of alien life. Only that it's possible.
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But in the case of ESP we can't confirm even that, by your own reasoning.
 
zengirl said:
I don't believe in owning property...
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Now, see: demonstrating that you are posting the things you post without benefit of a physical machine would be a big step toward supporting your claims of ESP...

Who does "own" the physical machine with which you are posting?

(Also, to whom, and in response to what, is this addressed? The "quote" function is your friend...)
 
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