Split Thread Is Elena Kagan a Zionist? (split from "...explains the Holocaust")

[marksman]

I'm not agreeing with one word of Kagan's article, it is pure crap, phony 'analysis' disguising a naked attempt to circumvent the First Amendment. I'm saying the Zionists are having remarkable success as the article does show. The first law she 'analyzed' was prima facie absurd, a complete revocation of the First Amendment, and should never have been written, much less generated a case for the Supreme Court.

The first law to which I referred was the Alien and Sedition Act, enacted by Congress in 1798, seven years after enactment of the First Amendment, which barred speech that criticized the federal government. This was enacted by the very same people who helped draft and enact the First Amendment.

So nobody in this country ever thought the First Amendment was an absolute as you seem to believe.

 

[INRM]

I don't trust Kagan because she's totally inexperienced and has never sat as a judge on a regular court, she has never held any position such as a high-office that might provide a level of experience similar to what would be required such as being a Congressman/Senator/Governor/President, etc.

As for Thunder's comments, to the best of my knowledge he has me on ignore, I believe there is a very big issue regarding Israel. AIPAC is a lobby which is heavily influenced by Israel, and they did a couple of years back try to make it a hate crime not just to criticize Jews, but to criticize Israel, lumping it all under anti-semitism.

I believe people should be punished for advocating violence against a group of people, but I do not believe people should be punished for expressing views they hold even if they may be ignorant, stupid, or even repulsive.

I certainly do not think a person should be punished for criticizing the policies of another country.

 

[TSR]

AIPAC is a lobby which is heavily influenced by Israel, and they did a couple of years back try to make it a hate crime not just to criticize Jews, but to criticize Israel, lumping it all under anti-semitism.

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And you can *cite* this (proposed) law making it a crime "to criticize Jews, to criticize Israel?"

No?

Then why make the claim?
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[carlitos]

I would like to repeat - Pathetic.

 

[carlitos]

WTF???

How in the world could this be construed as "Zionist?"

The first law to which I referred was the Alien and Sedition Act, enacted by Congress in 1798, seven years after enactment of the First Amendment, which barred speech that criticized the federal government. This was enacted by the very same people who helped draft and enact the First Amendment.

So nobody in this country ever thought the First Amendment was an absolute as you seem to believe.

 

[Thunder]

this is a very stupid thread.

 

[carlitos]

Well, look where it originated

 

[Thunder]

Well, look where it originated

and look at the main participants.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

How in the world could this be construed as "Zionist?"

facts have a well known Zionist bias?

 

[dudalb]

Hey, what do you expect from an Holocaust Denier, Intelligent Debate?

 

[Saggy]

Just as a point of clarification .... The exceptions to the First Amendment are, ... I think ..

1. the 'shouting fire in a crowded room' case, I don't think there have been too many prosecutions for this exception and it's settled ....

2. libel and defamation - wiki reveals that the defamation laws were in place before the First Amendment and the FA was interpreted as guaranteeing 'freedom of the press' and not impacting defamation laws ... this too seems pretty settled .

3. disclosing classified material - the illegality of disclosing classified info proceeds from the Espionage Act of 1917 (I think) - and this has been an ongoing subject of court cases ... pretty quickly the criterion was established that the disclosure had to represent a 'clear and present danger' but I think that has been forgotten and this exception has been grossly abused with way too much classified material today ....

On the other side, FA protection sought for speech used to commit fraud is a new phenomenon (?) that is popping up in defense of the various Wall St. scams ... but it ain't gonna fly ...

 

[marksman]

From where do you derive these exceptions and not others? I don't see these exceptions in the First Amendment. Isn't the whole point of a Supreme Court to determine what exceptions there should be to an Amendment of the Constitution and not others? Why should Wikipedia trump the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court?

 

[TSR]

Just as a point of clarification .... The exceptions to the First Amendment are,

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Ah, so there *are* exceptions.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Anything else?
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[Saggy]

From where do you derive these exceptions and not others? I don't see these exceptions in the First Amendment. Isn't the whole point of a Supreme Court to determine what exceptions there should be to an Amendment of the Constitution and not others? Why should Wikipedia trump the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court?

I just mentioned it point of interest. I had never thought about it, and I have a female lawyer friend I'm trying to engage in debate on the subject as a way to .... well. If you interpret 'freedom of speech' to mean 'freedom of the press' than that's a start, and is probably what the originals were thinking about.

No, I don't think the Supremes determine exceptions. The Supremes should determine if legislation fits with the original intent (OI). A new law could agree with OI, it could violate OI, or it could be outside the scope of OI.

I think original intent on defamation is clear, it's an exception. I don't know if the originals considered military intelligence, probably not.

The 'hate speech' laws clearly violate OI but that doesn't deter the Zionists for a bit, just makes it more fun?

Funny note .... the case Kagan writes about first is on the ADL's website as one of their stumbling blocks .... as they proudly boast they been trying to circumvent the FA for 30 years ... and Kagan carries on the tradition....

 

[TSR]

The 'hate speech' laws clearly violate OI but that doesn't deter the Zionists for a bit, just makes it more fun?

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No, it's not clear at all. Do try to support this claim.

Then we can talk about your implication that "Zionists" are responsible.
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Funny note .... the case Kagan writes about first is on the ADL's website as one of their stumbling blocks .... as they proudly boast they been trying to circumvent the FA for 30 years ... and Kagan carries on the tradition....

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"Proudly boast?" I'd ask you to cite these boasts, but your record shows you will not only be unable to -- you will ignore the fact that you cannot.

Shall we talk about your "Falsus in uno" stumble -- or maybe you'd prefer to explain why you claimed to have pics of Dachau you did not have?
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[Thunder]

Saggy- do you hate "the Jews"?

 

[MaGZ]

A Holocuast Denier gets all upset because a Jew is nominated to the Supreme Court. Who could have guessed that?

Another commissar for the Court.

 

[Saggy]

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"Proudly boast?" I'd ask you to cite these boasts, but your record shows you will not only be unable to -- you will ignore the fact that you cannot.
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I would have given the link in the post, but the site is down .... if you google -adl hate laws- the first hit will be....

Hate Crimes Laws Introduction
ADL has long been in the forefront of national and state efforts to deter and counteract hate-motivated criminal activity. Hate crime statutes are necessary ...
www.adl.org/99hatecrime/intro.asp - Cached - Similar

but when you click on the link you get an error .... if it persists you can go to the wayback machine (web.archive.org) to get a copy .....it's worth it if you're interested in the fate of the FA

To get the ADL page where they grouse about the FA, google ..bigots racists and the law ... to get

Introduction: Racists, Bigots and the Law on the Internet
The explosion of the Internet, and especially the startling increase in the number of teenagers and even children online, has raised important concerns ...
www.adl.org/internet/internet_law1.asp - Cached - Similar

again, the site is down now and has been since my previous post ....

 

[TSR]

I would have given the link in the post, but the site is down .... if you google -adl hate laws- the first hit will be....

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Your claim was that they have been "trying to circumvent the FA for 30 years."

Working for laws which are generally supported by most people is not "circumventing" the FA.

You have admitted that other exceptions exist. You just don't like *those* exceptions.

Care to detail why in a way which does not invoke the slippery slope fallacy nor assume your hate is rational?
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[lionking]

We have Racial and Religious Vilification legislation in Australia. Before today I never knew we were controlled by Jews.......