Is Cryonics/Cryogenics WooWoo?

[Tez]

You are talking about damage to every single cell in the body (virtually).

Before thawing, you would have to repair this damage on a cell by cell basis [/i]in the solid state[/i] AND prevent any further damage occuring upon the thaw.

This is a classic example of failing to wildly extrapolate.

For instance: We can clone you, grow a brainless version (Avoid golden chance for ad hominem Tez, avoid...), and then transplant only your de-thawed brain. Thats 90% of the problem you raise solved.

But wait! Theres more...

Who says what makes you you needs to be made out of the exact same cells that you are. If we freeze the biochemical information well enough to be re-read, then we can read it out, and make your new brain out of flooglematter. (Yes, I know that this is some form of materialistic worldview - perhaps only people with this worldview deserve to survive?)

This may be a little drastic, perhaps all we need is to learn from other organisms that manage to preserve their essential structure upon sever freezing (heres a link: http://www.21cm.com/articles/cryobiology.html)

It is fashionable amongst skeptics to be shortsighted as well as skeptical. The Sagans of this world avoid such a flaw...

 

[American]

Who says what makes you you needs to be made out of the exact same cells that you are. If we freeze the biochemical information well enough to be re-read, then we can read it out, and make your new brain out of flooglematter.

That's called-- TODAY. They've put cell suspensions inside of inkjet printer cartridges. (I sht you not!) They're working on forming layers of tissue, and conceivably want to make whole organs that way, layer by layer.

I say "They" whenever I'm too lazy to find references. I seen it on Slashdot awhile back.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

another thing- that people may call it a brilliant scam is a sign that it's more likely to succeed. The huge economic force of wanting to live forever is only a positive thing to drive that goal forward. "brilliant" is right.

More 'likely' to succeed. Heh. I got some room in my freezer. I'll keep a head or two. I promise to maintain it at the same temp the cryo lab does. When they learn to clone brainless human bodies, I'll hand your heads over along with some of the money I stashed from what you all pay me.

Yeah, then I can put the money to some good use and actually put a kid or two through college so that they are smart enough not to waste money on that craziness. We all die. Get over it.

 

[American]

When they learn to clone brainless human bodies, I'll hand your heads over along with some of the money I stashed from what you all pay me.

Hey grandma! Try 1997:

Headless frogs

You and me should go out sometime. I'll show you all the record stores and how cool today's kids are! Don't worry, I'll have you back at the old folks' home by 7.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I'm only 30. I wanna make money too. My little kids need a college education someday.

Headless frogs are nothing like growing headless humans that will work well after a brain is added.

What's a record store you old relic? I think only libraries have records now, maybe.

 

[Correa Neto]

OK, lets assume that

(1) The technology to repair the cells at a molecular level becomes avaliable sometime in the future;
(2) there will be technology to grow brainless clones;
(3) there will be technology to implant brains on the clones and
(4) no laws against (2) and (3).

Now, I must ask:

(1) What are the chances that the cryo company will still be active and has not gone bankrupt say, 1 month before all these technologies become avaliable?

(2) Will these procedures be cost-effective? I mean, a fronzen head does not has too much cash...

(3) Will someone really care to do it?

 

[American]

Now, I must ask:

(1) What are the chances that the cryo company will still be active and has not gone bankrupt say, 1 month before all these technologies become avaliable?

(2) Will these procedures be cost-effective? I mean, a fronzen head does not has too much cash...

(3) Will someone really care to do it?

1) Worst case, they go bankrupt and their assets are liquidated/auctioned off. I think bidding on corpses is illegal (I have no idea, but it probably is...). They'd likely be a burden to their proud new owner, whoever that sicko may be.

They may suffer from lack-of-business, but they WON'T be cashed out Enron-style by their executives and stock holders, due to a contract and trust fund set up to ensure they can't do that. Here's the reference to Alcor's FAQ: Alcor FAQ

2) Cost effective? The nature of technology is driven by economics. At first it won't be cost-effective; it will be a huge gamble and maybe a total loss. As things advance, investors will see it as a great market with huge earnings, and then you can bet that it will turn cost-effective.

3) We will force them to, even if they object and don't want to. What country do you live in!? Don't get it their way, kid!

 

[Correa Neto]

2) Cost effective? The nature of technology is driven by economics. At first it won't be cost-effective; it will be a huge gamble and maybe a total loss. As things advance, investors will see it as a great market with huge earnings, and then you can bet that it will turn cost-effective.

OK, but where will the money to reanimate the guys and girls on the freezer come from?

3) We will force them to, even if they object and don't want to. What country do you live in!? Don't get it their way, kid!

Brazil, and don't worry, I'll be carefull. BTW, thanks for the "kid"

 

[Suggestologist]

Cryogenics = way to get money from people

Cells get a lot of damage in the freezing process. And if its a matter of keeping the DNA, there are more cost-efective ways, preserving just a small sample, not an entire head or a body.

BTW, if they manage to "reanimate" the heads, it will be just like in futurama...

As I recall, it can be set up to be paid by life insurance -- a one time cost only. Alcor employees have family members frozen.

Have you no expectation of advances in nanotechnology? Nanites could repair all the cells in parallel, assuming the cells are not too damaged.

Liquid Nitrogen is solid state -- there are no generators to go down, the nitrogen just has to be replaced once in a while.

 

[pupdog]

Now here's the important question: Can John Edwards talk to Ted Williams, or would he be put on hold?

Lots of people pay money to live forever--when the collection basket is passed through the pews.

 

[Correa Neto]

Even if in the future the technology becomes avaliable, IMHO its still a big bet, with so many ifs.

And like most bets, its a way for someone gets his/hers hands on someone else's money.

But I may be wrong. Anyway. I doubt I'll be around to see the outcome of all of this. Even if I had enough money to spend on this.

 

[Suggestologist]

Even if in the future the technology becomes avaliable, IMHO its still a big bet, with so many ifs.

And like most bets, its a way for someone gets his/hers hands on someone else's money.

But I may be wrong. Anyway. I doubt I'll be around to see the outcome of all of this. Even if I had enough money to spend on this.

Perhaps you should research how much money the people who work for and own Alcor actually make. While you should be skeptical, your jumping to conclusions about people's motives without examining the facts. The Basic Attribution Error strikes again.

 

[bignickel]

If ever Bill Gates gets frozen, a court order should be made that ensures that the computer controlling his freezer unit is a Windows NT 4 box.

Connected to the Internet.