Merged Is Conservatism the New Communism?

[jj]

Liberalism is just as devoted to bad science as conservatism:

1. Anti-nuclear power.

Really? You, personally, have called me a "leftist". I am pro-nuclear power. Your statement is, therefore, at best utterly mistaken.

2. Anti-hydroelectric power.

Ditto!

3. Anti-fracking.

Having friends with natural gas in their water well, and heavy metal contamination of extraordinary amount, I'm entirely opposed to shallow-well fracking. That's science. Being pro-shallow well fracking is anti-science, because it's against the evidence.

4. Anti-GMOs.

See #1.

5. Anti-vaccines.

Sorry, now that is a lie. The level of anti-vax on this board that you and some of your buddies has alleged to be somewhere between socialistic and communistic is undetectably small, and anti-vaxxers are corrected routinely on this issue, here and at every skeptical site.

6. Pro homeopathy cranks.

So PZ, Neil Tyson, Randi, DJ, etc, are "pro-homeopathy"? No. Not at all.

As the Denialism blog notes:

Every one of your claims are false. Is this a typical "conservative" approach?

 

[SKEPTICALSHAM]

Liberalism is just as devoted to bad science as conservatism:

1. Anti-nuclear power.
2. Anti-hydroelectric power.
3. Anti-fracking.
4. Anti-GMOs.
5. Anti-vaccines.
6. Pro homeopathy cranks.

As the Denialism blog notes:

For some on the left side of the political spectrum yes. But what in any form of liberalism is causing this hostility?

 

[maxpower1227]

Liberalism is just as devoted to bad science as conservatism:

1. Anti-nuclear power.
2. Anti-hydroelectric power.
3. Anti-fracking.
4. Anti-GMOs.
5. Anti-vaccines.
6. Pro homeopathy cranks.

As the Denialism blog notes:

I've pointed out the flaw in this tu quoque to you numerous times. Since you have never seemed to acknowledge my point or cease using this absurd argument, I suppose there's no point in repeating myself further.

 

[applecorped]

We need new terms:

"Superbadevilsm" for the right

"Feelgoodeveryoneloveseveryoneism" for the left

or

"Unrealisticviewofrealityism" for the left

Yes

 

[applecorped]

Liberalism is just as devoted to bad science as conservatism:

1. Anti-nuclear power.
2. Anti-hydroelectric power.
3. Anti-fracking.
4. Anti-GMOs.
5. Anti-vaccines.
6. Pro homeopathy cranks.

As the Denialism blog notes:

Qft

 

[tyr_13]

Qft

Are you going to start a thread about that?

 

[maxpower1227]

Qft

Indeed.

How many laws on these matters have been introduced in Congress or state legislatures by Democrats? Are they about as frequent as anti-evolution bills? Do Democratic presidential candidates have to be asked where they stand on vaccination? (Has any Democratic politician claimed that vaccines cause mental retardation?)

And so on.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Liberalism is just as devoted to bad science as conservatism:

1. Anti-nuclear power.
2. Anti-hydroelectric power.
3. Anti-fracking.
4. Anti-GMOs.
5. Anti-vaccines.
6. Pro homeopathy cranks.

As the Denialism blog notes:

1 to 4 isn't anti science, but mere criticism of how science is used. They believe the science.
5 is common to both sides, republicans think vaccines lead to promiscuity after all.
6 is a plague that infects many Americans....probably due to the free market.

 

[Brainster]

I've pointed out the flaw in this tu quoque to you numerous times. Since you have never seemed to acknowledge my point or cease using this absurd argument, I suppose there's no point in repeating myself further.

Simple response:

Yes, conservatives have equivalent blind spots about global warming.

Citing tu quoque is a way of shrugging off the arguments I raised.

 

[Brainster]

For some on the left side of the political spectrum yes. But what in any form of liberalism is causing this hostility?

Well, if we're talking about the classical form of liberalism....

 

[joesixpack]

Well, if we're talking about the classical form of liberalism....

I'm still wondering when "liberalism" bacame synonymous with "communism". Do you understand what communism is?

 

[jj]

Well, if we're talking about the classical form of liberalism....

You mean the form that you wish to claim is classical.

 

[jj]

I'm still wondering when "liberalism" bacame synonymous with "communism". Do you understand what communism is?

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone calling for an end to private property, except some of the banksters, who only want THEM to have it.

 

[Tony]

How many laws on these matters have been introduced in Congress or state legislatures by Democrats? Are they about as frequent as anti-evolution bills? Do Democratic presidential candidates have to be asked where they stand on vaccination? (Has any Democratic politician claimed that vaccines cause mental retardation?)

And so on.

^ This.

Until cons can demonstrate that liberals promote whatever silliness that may exist on their side to the same extent that cons promote their silliness, this is nothing but false equivalence. But it is entertaining to watch them desperately try to show how others are just as kooky as they are.

 

[joesixpack]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone calling for an end to private property, except some of the banksters, who only want THEM to have it.

Yes, and all the talk of "free markets" seems to be about freedom to form a monopoly.

 

[Mark6]

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone calling for an end to private property, except some of the banksters, who only want THEM to have it.

I have.

Gaetan

 

[Dessi]

Looking at the way modern conservatives preach there philosophy and dismiss contradictory information, its seems very and eerily similar to the dogmatic nature that communism was. There are of course differences to how extreme each philosophy went.

There are lots of ways to criticize the dogmatic ultra-right, but I think "XYZ philosophy is JUST LIKE COMMUNISM" will make peoples eyes roll. Overused trope, usually not effective.

A few years ago, I read The President of Good and Evil, which dissects George W Bush's moral beliefs, and the morals of the Republican party more generally. The author is very fair, not polemical, he gives credit to Bush where he deserves credit (response to the AIDS crisis in Africa), criticizes Bush where he deserves to be criticized (reducing down complex moral issues in terms of black and white / good vs evil terms). Good place to draw inspiration.

 

[Dessi]

If you find the comment "liberalism is a mental disorder" offensive, it must be true. I know of at least one whole book written to back up the argument. Are there books written to counter this idea?

Yes. The DSM-IV and DSM-V, which define and describe the clinical attributes of mental disorder. I don't think there's any single "absolute" definition of a mental disorder, similar to the way there's no single definition of "life" or "species", but most definitions of mental disorders classify disorders as such because anomalies in the normal function of the patients brain cause the patient significant distress or disability, anxiety, panic, impair their ability to form or maintain interpersonal relationships, cause them to experience abnormal thoughts and emotions, behave in a maladaptive manner far outside cultural norms expected for individuals.

In any case, I'm familiar with that book -- not in full, just the parts I was interested in reading -- it does not use the term "disorder" in a clinical manner, or even attempt to provide a definition of what a mental disorder is in the first place. The book itself is full of hyperbolic, polemical remarks along the lines that liberals "the left holds up Muhammed as their little darling of faith", among other bizarre characterizations of Democrats.

The book uses the expressions "mental disorder" and "disorder of liberalism" basically for what it is, a way to get under peoples skin. The book would have identical argument, form, and content if it were instead called "Liberals are mentally retarded".

 

[Ziggurat]

I have.

Gaetan

I don't know how to categorize his politics (and it wouldn't mean much even if I did), but that guy definitely had mental disorders. I don't mean that flippantly, either.

 

[tyr_13]

There are lots of ways to criticize the dogmatic ultra-right, but I think "XYZ philosophy is JUST LIKE COMMUNISM" will make peoples eyes roll. Overused trope, usually not effective.

A few years ago, I read The President of Good and Evil, which dissects George W Bush's moral beliefs, and the morals of the Republican party more generally. The author is very fair, not polemical, he gives credit to Bush where he deserves credit (response to the AIDS crisis in Africa), criticizes Bush where he deserves to be criticized (reducing down complex moral issues in terms of black and white / good vs evil terms). Good place to draw inspiration.

I think a comparison of the ways Modern Conservatism and Communism are similar, the causes and effects of those similarities, and the differences could be an interesting and even useful academic exercise. It wouldn't have to be a criticism in total, and obviously the argument 'they're just like each other' is deeply flawed.

That's why I think the 'modern liberals do/say' issues are sidetracks. They simply aren't part of the discussion. That said, that would also be a fun academic comparison.