Is Bill Bennett a hypocrite?

[RandFan]

" Gee, I just can't imagine that most of the readership of " The Book of Virtues ", would have a problem, with me hanging out in casinos and dumping ~$8 mil into slot and video poker machines."

My first thought, good point. My second, Christ why can't I suffer from such moral dilemmas.

 

[Suddenly]

My big problem with Bennett and his gambling is that he first claimed to have "just about broke even." Given his choice of games and amount of play this is pretty much impossible.

Why did he lie about results? Did he think he was better if he won? Doesn't this lie signal a lot of deeper problems? If he has no problem and this was acceptable behaviour why quit? Why put on casino documents that he was to be contacted at work and not at home?

Bottom line is that his first public reaction to the gambling allegation was either an outright lie or the product of delusion. Considering we are talking about millions of dollars I can't tell which is worse.

As an avid poker player, I have no problem with gambling per se, although I can't understand why people gamble in situations with negative expected value. "I just about break even" is gamblespeak for "I lose my a** and its none of your buisiness, thank you." It bugs me that Bennett will throw a drug addict in jail when he is so hoplessly addicted to gambling he either a) deludes himself about multi-million dollar losses or b) lies about results. The he quits cold turkey. I'll give 3 - 1 he's on an internet casino by July.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

My first thought, good point. My second, Christ why can't I suffer from such moral dilemmas.

On this we certainly agree.. Everytime I hear a story about someone pissing away a million bucks, I think " man, if I had that money, I could really do some good with it.." Even if I manged to squander it, at least I could clear up any doubt.. I could even live with being labeled a hypocrite..

 

[Skeptical Greg]

........ Politicians do this all the time, refraining from behaviors that the public does not approve of, irrespective of they beliefs about thos behaviors.

MattJ

Whoa!!!

....Maybe when they get caught.. That's called being a..... ( starts with an 'h')........ come on, you say it ?

( P.S. This type of behavior is definitely not restricted to politicians.)

 

[aerocontrols]

Whoa!!!

....Maybe when they get caught.. That's called being a..... ( starts with an 'h')........ come on, you say it ?

( P.S. This type of behavior is definitely not restricted to politicians.)

No, I don't think so.

If I say "gambling is wrong" and then gamble, then I'm a hypocrite.

If I believe gambling is fine, but dont' engage in it because the public would never vote for me (or support my political group) then I'm not a hypocrite.

If I believe gambling is fine, and even engaged in it in the past, and even told people that I did so, but quit engaging in it because it starts costing me politically, I'm again not a hypocrite.

What is hypocritical about a public figure (who relies on the good will of the public) trying to please the public? It's a simple cost-benefit calculation, isn't it?

Must all people who engage in sodomy become pro-sodomy activists and go public with their sex lives, or are they allowed to remain relatively silent (and when speaking out, they say that they engage in sodomy and generally believe it's fine to do) on the subject without becoming hypocrites?

MattJ

 

[Clancie]

aerocontrols,
Try this one. If you lie ("I just about broke even"; "I have no problem with it"), and yet you criticize others for lying because lying is wrong, you're a hypocrite.

 

[aerocontrols]

aerocontrols,
Try this one. If you lie ("I just about broke even"; "I have no problem with it"), and yet you criticize others for lying because lying is wrong, you're a hypocrite.

Good enough for me.

 

[crackmonkey]

As several people have correctly observed, hypocrisy necessitates acting in a way contrary to one's stated convictions. He never considered gambling to be a vice, and never made a secret of his gambling. He therefore was not a hypocrite for gambling, by definition - he never said it was wrong.
An example of a hypocrite would be an anti-gun crusader caught with a concealed weapon.
Bennett is an example of someone the left strenuously objects to, and liberals finally have something to try to beat him about the head and shoulders with. It doesn't matter that this wasn't an example of hypocrisy - repeat it enough with vigor and some wil actually begin to believe it.

 

[WMT1]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
It was Randfan's definition, and he found an example.

If you're talking about the Streisand example, I would certainly agree that it's hypocrisy, but I'm not so sure that would be a slam dunk if limited to the definition Randfan provided. (It would be interesting to see exactly what Babs actually said.) If you guys are going to be rigorous about definitions, then at least be rigorous about the ones you use too.

I agree that one is hard-pressed to find such examples, but only because I believe that most people who are publicly called hypocrites are not in fact hypocrites.

If limited to the definition Randfan provided, I'd agree.

He was not falsely assuming appearance of virtue (by either your definition or his, since you both believe that gambling is not immoral, and he wasn't pretending not to be a gambler in any case)

Sorry, but that part does not turn on whose sense of "virtue" you're talking about, so it doesn't have to be limited to his or mine. When you're talking about appearances, the assessment of anyone the appearance is meant for is relevant as well. And there are enough people who do find gambling morally objectionable to put the issue at play when someone makes a living from smugly and self righteously talking about "virtues", and enough so to warrant either refraining from such a potentially morally objectionable activity himself, or acknowledging it publicly from the beginning, and defending his participation. Failure to do this comes close enough, in my book, to qualify as falsely assuming an appearance of virtue.

Bennett's hypocrisy hinges on what he believes, not what you believe.

Not with the definition I'm using.

Right. You referred to a distinction he makes, which is the distinction his church makes, as hypocritical. Your objection hinges on whether the distinction is valid or not. You say it isn't, and that makes him (and every member of the Catholic Church who sticks to its teachings) hypocrites. I understand your position much better now.

Those are some pretty serious leaps you're making to attribute views to me that I never expressed. (Wasn't there a similar problem in your last response too?)

I made no mention of the Catholic Church at all. I've certainly given you enough to work with for you to know that an accurate characterization of who I'm talking about would be anyone who engages in some form of consensual but potentially self-destructive behavior, while supporting the jailing of people who engage in other forms of it, regardless of their religious affiliation. Somehow I doubt that even comes close to applying to "every member of the Catholic Church who sticks to its teachings".

Originally posted by Crossbow
Well, if gambling is a virtuous behavior, then why is he giving it up?

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Obviously he's giving it up because lots of people disagree, and it's costing him politically.

Nope, not so obvious. In the absence of any specific statement to the contrary, it could just as easily be inferred that, by giving it up, he's agreeing that it's immoral. And if that's not really what he believes, isn't the failure to clear up that impression getting dangerously close to professing beliefs that he does not hold or possess? Come to think of it, isn't the whole point of someone doing something for political reasons often to create an impression that isn't necessarily consistent with what they actually believe?

Politicians do this all the time, refraining from behaviors that the public does not approve of, irrespective of they beliefs about thos behaviors.

That politicians do something all the time hardly disqualifies it as hypocrisy. Hell, they practically wrote the instruction manual. Is there anyone better at "professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess" or "falseness"?

 

[Kodiak]

Technically, no...but, yeah, sorta...