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Is Atheism based on Logic or Faith?

mikeb768

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mikeb768
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If the statement "Nothing comes from Nothing" is True?
And the statement "Something comes from Something" is also True?

Then the question remains, if the two above statements are in fact "True" can the statement "Something comes from Nothing" Also be True?
*And if you believe this to be so, can you please explain the rationale which you use to support your position.


Further Discussion
In the Quran we are told by God that "Truth stands out clearly from falsehood" [Quran 2:256]. Another way of thinking of this can be that Truth and Lies are unable to occupy the same space. This can also be understood as the basis for Logic.

Logic is defined as: reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

If we are to accept that the number "zero" and the number "one" are not equal. Then we can also agree that a computer (for example) that is turned "OFF" and a computer that is turned "ON" are also not operating equally. Just as "Yes" and "No" are not equal.

The basis for a computer to operate successfully relies on Logic. Without Logic not only would your computer not function correctly, it would not even power up. Don't believe me? Then look at the back of your machine and locate the Power supply and then flip the switch which changes the "1" back to a "0" and see for yourself. We can pause for a second and wait for people to return at this point. If you are still reading this you probably chose to leave the Power supply value set to "True" rather than switching it over to "False", congratulations! To everyone else welcome back.

Some Examples of Logic in Islam
Logic in Islam [1] God swears by "the Even and the Odd", #.
Logic in Islam [2] Discussion of Authorship of the Quran using Logic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2r8DLvVEA Logic in Islam [3] Discussion of the Quran being interwoven with the Number "19" as a sign for those who choose to disbelieve, [Quran 74:30]. *A conversation which was so compelling that one moderator actually resorted to wholesale censorship.
Logic in Islam [4] Document X? I am still working my way through the entirety of this video, although it was uploaded by a reputable brother and has to do with a group of scientist who are are discussing science, God, and what they describe as the "inescapable conclusion".

*Please avoid using arguments which rely on "Infinite Regress" as this has idea has already been deemed as "illogical", and such an approach is now considered to be "old hat" by both theist and atheist alike. I intentionally left this statement at the bottom of the post, based upon the assumption that most people within this community are often quick to post without even bothering to read that which they are replying to.
 
If the statement "Nothing comes from Nothing" is True?
And the statement "Something comes from Something" is also True?

Then the question remains, if the two above statements are in fact "True" can the statement "Something comes from Nothing" Also be True?
*And if you believe this to be so, can you please explain the rationale which you use to support your position.
Click to expand...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZiXC8Yh4T0
 
"Is atheism based on logic or faith?"

That''s like asking whether water comes from a sea or from a lake.

Both are possible. You can be an atheists on faith grounds (the faith that gods can't exist because otherwise chickens wouldn''t lay eggs.No, that's not a real example), or on logic grounds (gods probably don''t exist, because we don''t observe anything like them).

But that's all just the bare basics.

To answer your real question, "How can atheists claim to base their nonbelief on logic, when it is clearly stated in the quran that logic comes from god?";

Well, first prove that the quran is usefull in explaining anything in a better way than science does. Then we'll talk.
 
mikeb768 said:
If the statement "Nothing comes from Nothing" is True?
And the statement "Something comes from Something" is also True?
Click to expand...

1. If the statement "everything comes from a cat" is true, can you deny that the world too must be created by a cat?

In other words, the problem with your bullcrap -- generally, not just here -- is basically the difference between valid and sound. Just because you can pull a premise out of the ass, doesn't mean your conclusion is even worth the bandwidth you wasted with it.

Can something come out of nothing? Actually it happens all the time. The Casimir effect and Hawking radiation are both based on virtual particles and their anti-particle being created out of nothing all the time. And especially the former is extremely well supported experimentally.

So, yes, not only something is created from nothing, but it happens all the time.

Which nixes the whole premise of that argument right there. Hence it's not sound, hence you can't base a "therefore god" on it.

2. Even if the premise were true -- and again, it ain't -- so what? The best you could get from there, via valid reasoning, is that SOMETHING must have caused the universe. You don't get that that something is specifically your imaginary friend.


Sorry if I sound harsh, but by now I've had it up to here with arguments boiling down to "I don't understand either physics/reality or logic, therefore, trololololol, my God is real."

The Kalām Cosmological Argument, just like Aquinas's "unmoved mover" and the rest of his book, had an excuse back then. (Well, actually the Kalām argument much less so, but still...) Back then those axioms and working from them without checking against reality, was the best in philosophy, and nobody knew better anyway. Back when Al-Kindi (9'th century) or Al-Ghazali (11'th century) dug out one of the many bogus arguments of Aristotle to support their God, well, nobody knew any better. There was no scientific method yet, and the Aristotelian system was the best anyone got. So they get a pass.

But trying to do the same in the 21'st century is just stupid and ignorant.
 
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mikeb768 said:
Please avoid using arguments which rely on "Infinite Regress" as this has idea has already been deemed as "illogical", and such an approach is now considered to be "old hat" by both theist and atheist alike. I intentionally left this statement at the bottom of the post, based upon the assumption that most people within this community are often quick to post without even bothering to read that which they are replying to.
Click to expand...

What did god come from?

If God can exist uncreated, then why can't the universe?
 
mikeb768 said:
*Please avoid using arguments which rely on "Infinite Regress" as this has idea has already been deemed as "illogical", and such an approach is now considered to be "old hat" by both theist and atheist alike. I intentionally left this statement at the bottom of the post, based upon the assumption that most people within this community are often quick to post without even bothering to read that which they are replying to.
Click to expand...

Dude, your wishful thinking and ignorance don't make it "old hat" or proven wrong. If you still think you can use Aquinas in the 21'st century, the problem isn't that the others don't read the post, is that, as you've amply proven, you're too... unequipped to actually have these discussions.
 
The question has been answered a gazillion times. Just because yet another case of Dunning-Kruger thinks he must totally be the first who came up with it, doesn't make the rest of us any less tired of hearing the same nonsense again.
 
Atheism - that is, 'Not-Theism', doesn't 'come' from anywhere. To simplify it for you, it's the default state. It's where we all start from, before whatever society we live in indoctrinates us into a Theism state.

As children, we believe those who have power over us (parents, society, our 'elders', whatever) when they tell us things. As children, we don't know enough to ask why - or , as happens oftimes, asking 'why' gets us punished/beaten/ignored/lectured, whatever.

We quickly learn not to question those who are in control of us.

Adult movement from believer back to the default state can occur for 1000's of different reasons, most of which can broadly be put in the phrase 'my beliefs don't seem to match up with reality - therefore - there's either something wrong with reality, or something wrong with my beliefs.

Guess which one of those two choices are supported by evidence?

Not this any of what I say will help the OP, methinks he's far to gone to bring back to reality :(
 
HansMustermann said:
Dude, your wishful thinking and ignorance don't make it "old hat" or proven wrong. If you still think you can use Aquinas in the 21'st century, the problem isn't that the others don't read the post, is that, as you've amply proven, you're too... unequipped to actually have these discussions.
Click to expand...

Can you name someone who would lend their support to you, regarding the theory of Infinite Regress?
 
I can't speak for anyone else but my atheism comes from evidence. There is overwhelming evidence gods are human invented myth, zero evidence there are real gods, ergo the evidence supports by the widest of margins the conclusion that no gods exist.
 
Taking only one issue from the opening post for the moment. It is quite clear that Rashad Khalifa edited the quran to fit his number 19 theory. He deleted verses 9.128 and 9.129 because they did not fit his theory. He claimed the quran had been altered. Thereby refuting the idea that the quran is the unchanging word of God transmitted from the time of Muhammad by people who have learned it all by heart.
 
mikeb768 said:
*Please avoid using arguments which rely on "Infinite Regress" as this has idea has already been deemed as "illogical", and such an approach is now considered to be "old hat" by both theist and atheist alike. I intentionally left this statement at the bottom of the post, based upon the assumption that most people within this community are often quick to post without even bothering to read that which they are replying to.
Click to expand...

Why should we avoid that? Not liking it is not an acceptable reply.
 
No atheist says something comes from nothing. We just don't say goddidit when we lack all the facts. Atheists don't say for sure that no god exists only that evidence for a god doesn't exist. If a gods existence could be proven how would you know it was the same god you worship?

I'll tell you one thing. If a god does exist he she or it certainly could care less abput whats going on here on earth. Innocent people suffer and die every second of every day. Many of these victims die praying to god for help and then they die anyway.
 
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