Is Anorexia really a disease?

[paximperium]

Mmmm.

"Anorexia" is a presenting sign.

"Anorexia nervosa" is a psychiatric illness.

[/pedant]

Rolfe.

Anorexia just means not eating.

 

[Rolfe]

That's what I meant, dude.

Rolfe.

 

[paximperium]

That's what I meant, dude.

Rolfe.

ARolfe means no Rolfe.
Apathy means no pathy.

 

[JJM 777]

If I were up there writing psychiatric manuals, I would be less enthusiastic to use words like "disease" or "disorder" for the various forms of deviant behaviour (in our current culture and legislation), where the brain is physically and chemically quite normal. I would rather use words like "behavioral pattern" or "thinking pattern" or something.

Using the word "disorder" for various types of behaviour, which the publishers of psychiatric manuals have regarded as strange or offending the general public, doesn't qualify as value-neutral science in my opinion.

 

[paximperium]

If I were up there writing psychiatric manuals, I would be less enthusiastic to use words like "disease" or "disorder" for the various forms of deviant behaviour (in our current culture and legislation), where the brain is physically and chemically quite normal. I would rather use words like "behavioral pattern" or "thinking pattern" or something.

Using the word "disorder" for various types of behaviour, which the publishers of psychiatric manuals have regarded as strange or offending the general public, doesn't qualify as value-neutral science in my opinion.

The DSM(now DSM-IVTR and DSM-V is a few years away) has been revised many times. A behavior becomes a disorder ONLY if it disruptive, harmful or detrimental.

There is a reason various "deviancy" was removed from the manual decades ago.

 

[Kahalachan]

I have been told I am very callous on the issue. I admit I do not have much sympathy for anorexics due to the fact that I have dealt with so many people who use the "disease excuse" as a crutch for continuing on with their damaging behavior.

That would be using your own personal experience as a valid statistic, which it's not.

There's an immense distortion of bodily image involved in anorexia as well. It's not as if they all say "Well I know I'm too skinny but I'm gonna starve myself anyways" so it's not always a conscious decision to continue that behavior.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's no reason to claim that something isn't a disease.

This is the internet, arguing semantics is enough reason to justify any argument.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I disagree with your use of "semantics".

 

[ponderingturtle]

If I were up there writing psychiatric manuals, I would be less enthusiastic to use words like "disease" or "disorder" for the various forms of deviant behaviour (in our current culture and legislation), where the brain is physically and chemically quite normal. I would rather use words like "behavioral pattern" or "thinking pattern" or something.

Why is it so important a shift? Why is Austism Spectrum Behavioral Patter better than Austism Spectrum Disorder?

Why is it so important that the cause of a disorder be understood rather than the effects of the disorder?

 

[Dancing David]

I thought most of those were associated with other disorders like Borderline, Depression and other psychoses?

They kind of cross boundaries, Borderline is not like the others (Axis II), and the co-occurence can vary. The people i worked with who were likely to engage in com[pulsibe self harm were not psychotic.

It is a form of OCD if not a common one. IMNSHO, which is just an opinion. Now I can't say how much auto-erotic asphyx. is OCd because of the behavioral component.

 

[Dancing David]

I agree with the other posters that anorexia is a disorder rather than what would be typically classed as a disease. However, someone with anorexia just can't "get over it". Their brain and therefore their way of thinking has been compromised and to get it back into a normal way of thinking requires years of therapy and much hard work by the patient themselves - just like many other forms of mental illness.

To me telling someone with anorexia to "get over it" would be the same as telling someone with cancer the same thing.

Well, this is where we get into language usage, 'disease' is a common term and used by lay people and press releases, often by para-professional and self-advocate organizations. It is not usually the professionals and the researchers who use the 'disease' phrase.

I have other big beefs with the anorexia treatment community. (Like the common avoidance of medications)

But , the OP is sort of a huge jerk.

 

[Dancing David]

I think there is a misconception that when something is labeled a disorder that it removes responsibility from the person who has it. I don't think anything could be further from the truth. Maybe someone more versed in mental health can clarify, but as I see it a disorder is any identifiable behavioral pattern that is harmful to the subject--whether by leading them to harm themselves, or because their behavior has consequences to their life, for example by separating them from friends and family, or creating obstacles to their life management.

Again, as I see it, they can be identified as clinical disorders, in which case something is physiologically wrong with the subject, or a personality disorder, which has no physical pathology (if I'm using the term correctly). The purpose of identifying them is not to invalidate negative reactions from others when faced with the behavior--it is to learn about the problem and determine what works for solving it and what doesn't.

When I hear people exclaim frustratedly that "everything's a disorder now!" I think they're missing the point and feel they're not allowed to be angry with a person exhibiting, say, antisocial behavior.

Well, different disorders have different biological componenets to them, some have greater biological vulnerabilities and some fall more towards the nehavioral end.

Nothing should be a crutch just part of the explanation.

 

[Dancing David]

If I were up there writing psychiatric manuals, I would be less enthusiastic to use words like "disease" or "disorder" for the various forms of deviant behaviour (in our current culture and legislation), where the brain is physically and chemically quite normal. I would rather use words like "behavioral pattern" or "thinking pattern" or something.

Using the word "disorder" for various types of behaviour, which the publishers of psychiatric manuals have regarded as strange or offending the general public, doesn't qualify as value-neutral science in my opinion.

Yeah, I guess killing yourself when you are depressed is just 'strange or offending '.

So demonstrate that there is not a biological connection and then pretend people with psychosis aren't sick they are just misunderstood.

 

[Dancing David]

Why is it so important a shift? Why is Austism Spectrum Behavioral Patter better than Austism Spectrum Disorder?

Why is it so important that the cause of a disorder be understood rather than the effects of the disorder?

In this case it is not behavioral but neurological, i am agreeing with you.

 

[Soapy Sam]

A question for Epok.

Do you have any habits you have ever thought you should break, but have failed to actually make the effort?

Could be anything- untidiness, smoking, masturbation, talking too loudly, not washing the dishes for days?

None of these is likely to kill you, though they might induce someone else to- but if you think about what actually happens in your head when you consider taking action then fail,- maybe this is exactly what happens in the similar, but more harmful case of someone displaying anorexic behaviour?

I listened yesterday to a radio interview with a man who developed agoraphobia after a panic attack. What he described sounded to my unqualified ears like a neural event of some sort- fit, stroke, something. It got me wondering how many aberrant behaviours arise from such an event. If there's anything to this, the behaviour itself is not an illness; it's a consequence of a neural problem that may have occurred years before- just as a limp is not a disease, but may be a consequence of a fall years ago.

I agree with you that some folk do use the "I'm ill" excuse, when they seem to be just lazy , self indulgent and weak willed. but that doesn't mean all behavioural disorders are imaginary.

It can be hard to tell sometimes.

 

[Gate2501]

I thought most of those were associated with other disorders like Borderline, Depression and other psychoses?

<<<< diagnosed with OCD.

I have never experienced clinical depression, but I do have some serious anxiety issues as well. I am one of those rare cases who felt compelled to harm myself. I haven't engaged in such activities for many years(7ish), but you can see my arm on my avatar. The rest of my body is much worse.

The crazy thing is I hated doing it, it was scary, and it made me constantly think I was going to get infections or bleed out. I still did it. Repeatedly.

 

[ponderingturtle]

In this case it is not behavioral but neurological, i am agreeing with you.

I thought ASD was diagnosed through behavioral definitions. If you have enough of this list of behaviors you fit the criteria.

I was not aware of a proven neurological explanation for it. It is believed to be neurological sure, but why should it have a neurological basis and anorexia not?

 

[godless dave]

Personally, I think it's a tough call. The problem lies less in whether a person can be considered responsible for an action or not, but rather the consequences of what that responsibility actually means.

I think in a case where someone says they have anorexia, but does not seek treatment for it or does not make an effort to work at their treatment, some responsibility lies with the patient.

 

[JJM 777]

Why is it so important a shift? Why is Austism Spectrum Behavioral Patter better than Austism Spectrum Disorder?

Autism has physiological reasons, and therefore cannot be cured by any (currently known) means, so autism is not part of the "thinking patterns" that I talked about.

The point was: in the various "disorders" which include no physiological anomaly, but only some very unusual thinking or behaviour (such as homosexuality, as was thought not long time ago), it is not neutral to call such a thing "disorder", as this word carries the meaning that something is "wrong" with the person.

What comes to anorexia, there indeed are websites promoting the "right to anorexia", people who don't like the fuss around their chosen lifestyle. Their lifestyle does include health risks, but if that is the criteria for diagnosing a person as mentally out of order, quite many lifestyles should be added to the list. Mountaineering for example.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Autism has physiological reasons, and therefore cannot be cured by any (currently known) means, so autism is not part of the "thinking patterns" that I talked about.

So what are the physiological reasons? They seem to be assumed but I have never heard of any test, even post mortum that could be used to diagnose it.

So you believe it has a physciological reason and don't think this has a physiological basis. But there is evidence for a physiological basis for this as well. Why do you think you see anorexics even in cultures that think larger women are the most attractive?

So how do you know that there are such physiological reason for Autism spectrum and nothing of the kind for Anorexia?

The point was: in the various "disorders" which include no physiological anomaly, but only some very unusual thinking or behaviour (such as homosexuality, as was thought not long time ago), it is not neutral to call such a thing "disorder", as this word carries the meaning that something is "wrong" with the person.

So it is pure pendantry?