• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Is Amway A Scam?

Are you making any money?

I've just joined and still preparing to make it as professional and ethical as possible.
I have a meeting with my leader (emerald pin) to learn how he does the presentation to 8 people I invited this Saturday.

However, I already save money as Amway UK is priced very competitively here.
Nothing to lose, possibility to help people save some money and free business trainings.

Great way to learn some skills for me.

BTW: I'm buying a house for an investment soon. I don't put all eggs in 1 basket. 1% chance of success is not worth it :D
 
I've just joined and still preparing to make it as professional and ethical as possible.
I have a meeting with my leader (emerald pin) to learn how he does the presentation to 8 people I invited this Saturday.

However, I already save money as Amway UK is priced very competitively here.
Nothing to lose, possibility to help people save some money and free business trainings.

Great way to learn some skills for me.

BTW: I'm buying a house for an investment soon. I don't put all eggs in 1 basket. 1% chance of success is not worth it :D

If you are amenable to the idea, how about letting us know how it goes? I'm in the US and am not familiar with how Amway is run in the UK. I'd be very interested in hearing what happens.
 
With pleasure. I will also let you know about any scams and other unethical behaviours.
The great thing is - I decide how ethically I run the business and what example I give to my downline :)

Regards
Krzysztof
 
Last edited:
With pleasure. I will also let you know about any scams and other unethical behaviours.
The great thing is - I decide how ethically I run the business and what example I give to my downline :)

Regards
Krzysztof

Good luck, perhaps you will be the exception and prove me wrong.
 
According to many statistics 95% of small business fail within 5 years.
summitbusinesssolutions.ws/docs/reasons_biz_fail.pdf
Does it mean that starting a small business is a scam and nobody should do it?

This is ridiculous.

95 % of small businesse close within 5 years, but that that doesn't mean the business was losing money. Normally it just doesn't make *enough* money to meet the owners ambitions.

How many business owners are losing money overall, included MLM?
http://smallbiztrends.com/2013/03/infographic-failed-small-businesses.html

•40% of small businesses are profitable.
•30% break even.
•30% are continually losing money.
•9% have a chance of surviving 10 years.
(further sources are provided in the link, among them the site you linked to, summitbusinesssolutions.com),

How many MLM sales reps suffer significant Financial loss, compared to the overall 30 % of businesses losing money?

99 % See http://pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MythofIncomeReport.html

And according to http://www.pinktruth.com/2013/11/proof-that-99-lose-money-in-mlms/
The research was complicated ever so slightly by the fact that the MLMs generally report figures for only active participants. Naturally, this excludes all participants from throughout the year who may have also failed. Robert determined that if all participants over a five-year period were to be included in the calculations of earnings, the failure rates would be even more devastating.
 
You may be right. My mother runs a grocery shop. They don't lose money but it's not very profitable as well. Hard to judge if it's a fail or success.


I don't understand how people can lose money in legitimate MLM.
They must do it completely wrong or they were scammed by their leaders.

If a leader is asking you to spend more money, then it's a scam. You don't buy the position - you earn it.

MLM is very, very hard job but it's not a scam. If somebody is telling it's easy and quick money - they scam you and damage the company reputation.

I've done some calculations how big group I need and how many customers we need together - a LOT.
Imagine running a retail shop with your employees. How many happy and regular customers you need to succeed. Big number.

This is a serious business with LOTS of work required. If everyone is aware of that it's not a scam IMHO.

Regards
Krzysztof
 
Last edited:
You may be right. My mother runs a grocery shop. They don't lose money but it's not very profitable as well. Hard to judge if it's a fail or success.


I don't understand how people can lose money in legitimate MLM.
They must do it completely wrong or they were scammed by their leaders.

If a leader is asking you to spend more money, then it's a scam. You don't buy the position - you earn it.

MLM is very, very hard job but it's not a scam. If somebody is telling it's easy and quick money - they scam you and damage the company reputation.

I've done some calculations how big group I need and how many customers we need together - a LOT.
Imagine running a retail shop with your employees. How many happy and regular customers you need to succeed. Big number.

This is a serious business with LOTS of work required. If everyone is aware of that it's not a scam IMHO.

Regards
Krzysztof

One concern I have is how you seem to separate the company reps from the company. As if the parent company (i.e. Amway) is some kind of victim because their distributors engage in unethical behavior. It wouldn't be that hard for Amway to rein in some of the unethical behavior and perhaps they try to do that but based on my observations on people's comments and blogs written by IBO's, I don't see that much has changed over the years and much of the same stuff is done now as it was done many years ago. For example, people are still deceptive at times when presenting the Amway business.
 
You may be right. My mother runs a grocery shop. They don't lose money but it's not very profitable as well. Hard to judge if it's a fail or success.


I don't understand how people can lose money in legitimate MLM.

You lose money when you put in time and effort that isn't renumerated. It's very difficult to make a good wage selling stuff if you aren't a good salesman. Most people aren't good at sales.

They must do it completely wrong or they were scammed by their leaders.

And then add on top that the upline looks at you as a customer, not a partner. You are there to be squeezed for as much money and time as possible to line their pockets with. That's very implicit in the way the MLM is setup. They make it worse by coming up with all kinds of products like seminars etc. that they profit from.

If a leader is asking you to spend more money, then it's a scam. You don't buy the position - you earn it.

I've never seen an amway group that doesn't have paid seminars. Does yours?

MLM is very, very hard job but it's not a scam. If somebody is telling it's easy and quick money - they scam you and damage the company reputation.

Actually what they usually say is something like "This business is simple but you have to work hard and follow the plan. Here is a CD, listen to this, and here are some others listen to them, they will educate you on what to do."

Then they laugh all the way to the bank.

I've done some calculations how big group I need and how many customers we need together - a LOT.
Imagine running a retail shop with your employees. How many happy and regular customers you need to succeed. Big number.

Absolutely. Retail sales of things like soap is a very difficult and competitive business. You are going against the big retails and grocery stores who have slim margins.

This is a serious business with LOTS of work required. If everyone is aware of that it's not a scam IMHO.

Regards
Krzysztof


Having seen Amway close up for 30 years I would have to disagree. At best it's a horribly bad business at worst it's one of the biggest scams in the world.

As someone who is very successful myself I would never mentor someone to get into amway. There are just so many other easier ways to make money.
 
I see that Amway USA has some seroius problems.

Amway UK forbids taking payments for tools. Every help is for free and must be free.
If somebody in UK wants to make money on Amway needs to help others make money or do retail sells.
My upline keeps asking me how they can help me.
Every official amway tool is available for free on their website.

You don't even need to buy a single item to run a business. You can use videos from the website for product presentation.

I see that Amway UK is almost immune to scams. Hard to think how could you scam people.
Amway USA has some seroius holes in the system.

If leaders make money on theirs downline instead of helping them to make money, then it's a scam and company is losing money IMHO.

Amway USA is not a scam but can be easly used to scam people IMHO.
 
Last edited:
I see that Amway USA has some seroius problems.

Amway UK forbids taking payments for tools. Every help is for free and must be free.
If somebody in UK wants to make money on Amway needs to help others make money or do retail sells.
My upline keeps asking me how they can help me.
Every official amway tool is available for free on their website.

You don't even need to buy a single item to run a business. You can use videos from the website for product presentation.

I see that Amway UK is almost immune to scams. Hard to think how could you scam people.
Amway USA has some seroius holes in the system.

If leaders make money on theirs downline instead of helping them to make money, then it's a scam and company is losing money IMHO.

Amway USA is not a scam but can be easly used to scam people IMHO.

The difference is that the UK government threatened to kick Amway out, then the changes were made. It appears that political contributions and greasing the palms of the right people have allowed Amway to operate without any questioning.
 
You lose money when you put in time and effort that isn't renumerated. It's very difficult to make a good wage selling stuff if you aren't a good salesman. Most people aren't good at sales.
.

Exactly.And attending a dozen "Sales Seminars" (which most good salesmen regard with a great deal of amused skepticism) will not make you one.
Incidently, a really good salesman would not touch a MLM program with a ten foot pole.
 
The difference is that the UK government threatened to kick Amway out, then the changes were made. It appears that political contributions and greasing the palms of the right people have allowed Amway to operate without any questioning.

You are right about investigation. I can't find any info about greasing palms, however. The changes was massive so hard to say "operate without any questioning".


However, making the system scam-proof gave extraordinary results: over two times more registered consultants in 2 years.
As far as I know Amway China and Amway India are also scam-proof and the sales are growing.


Joecool - you gave us the tape from 1983 where the owner of Amway was calling tool scam a pyramid. They are officially against that for a long time.
They even cancelled few contracts with some diamonds. Even in USA. (TEAM)

It's hard to believe they support scamming as the numbers suggest it doesn't work. Scam-proof markets grow faster and give bigger sales for the company.
They may not be very good at fighting with scammers but they lose money on them IMHO.
 
You are right about investigation. I can't find any info about greasing palms, however. The changes was massive so hard to say "operate without any questioning".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amway

Political causes[edit]
In the 1990s, the Amway organization was a major contributor to the Republican Party (GOP) and to the election campaigns of various GOP candidates. Amway and its sales force contributed a substantial amount (up to half) of the total funds ($669,525) for the 1994 political campaign of Republican congresswoman and Amway distributor Sue Myrick (N.C.).[48] According to two reports by Mother Jones magazine, Amway distributor Dexter Yager “used the company’s extensive voice-mail system to rally hundreds of Amway distributors into giving a total of $295,871” to Myrick’s campaign.[48][49] According to a campaign staffer quoted by the magazine, Myrick had appeared regularly on the Amway circuit, speaking at hundreds of rallies and selling $5 and $10 audiotapes.[48] Following the 1994 election, Myrick maintained “close ties to Amway and Yager”, and raised $100,000 from Amway sources, “most notably through fundraisers at the homes of big distributors”, in the 1997–98 election cycle.[49]

In October 1994, Amway gave the biggest corporate contribution recorded to that date to a political party for a single election – $2.5 million to the Republican National Committee – and was the number one corporate political donor in the U.S.[48] In the 2004 election cycle, the organization contributed a total of $4 million to a conservative 527 group, Progress for America.[50]

In July 1996, Amway co-founder Richard DeVos was honored at a $3 million fundraiser for the Republican Party, and a week later, it was reported that Amway had tried to donate $1.3 million to pay for Republican "infomercials" and televising of the GOP convention on Pat Robertson's Family Channel, but backed off when Democrats criticized the donation as a ploy to avoid campaign-finance restrictions.[48][51]
In April 1997 Richard DeVos and his wife, Helen, gave $1 million to the Republican National Committee,[49][51] which at the time was the second-largest soft-money donation ever, behind Amway's 1994 gift of $2.5 million to the RNC.[49] In July 1997, Senate Majority leader Trent Lott and House Speaker Newt Gingrich slipped a last-minute provision into a hotly contested compromise tax bill that granted Amway a tax break on its Asian branches, saving it $19 million.[49]
In a column published in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram newspaper in August 1997,[52] reporter Molly Ivins wrote that Amway had "its own caucus in Congress...Five Republican House members are also Amway distributors: Reps. Sue Myrick of North Carolina, Jon Christensen of Nebraska, Dick Chrysler of Michigan, Richard Rombo of California, and John Ensign of Nevada. Their informal caucus meets several times a year with Amway bigwigs to discuss policy matters affecting the company, including China's trade status."[53]
A 1998 analysis of campaign contributions conducted by Businessweek found that Amway, along with the founding families and some top distributors, had donated at least $7 million to GOP causes in the preceding decade.[51] Political candidates who received campaign funding from Amway in 1998 included Representatives Bill Redmond (R-N.M.), Heather Wilson (R-N.M.), and Jon Christensen (R-Neb).[49]
According to a report by the Center for Public Integrity, in the 2004 election cycle, members of the Van Andel and DeVos families were the second, third and fifth largest donors to the Republican party.[53]
Dick DeVos, son of Amway founder Richard DeVos and past president of the company, served as Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee,[54] and his wife Betsy DeVos served as chair of the Michigan Republican Party from 1996 to 2000 and 2003 to 2005.[55]
 
I've thought you are talking about corruption in UK.
 
Last edited:
I've thought you are talking about corruption in UK.
This is 100% legal and common practice in USA (and many other countries). No need to make it in red.

There must have been something wrong for the BERR to investigate Amway. Although Amway was later cleared, the investigation is what triggered the lower prices, dropping of fees and the scammy tools business was suppressed.
 
It looks like there was a lot wrong about Amway - lots of holes that could be used to scam people. In that case by Network 21 and BWW.

Making the system scam-proof was very good for Amway. At least in UK and few other countries.

There is LOTS of info about scamming in Amway.
However, it's ALL about people scamming other people.
Amway is not very good at fighting with that but at least tries to do something.
All numbers show that Amway is losing money on scamming and any changes to make the system more scam-proof make Amway more money.

I can't be sure about anything and all the info I have is from Internet but for me it looks like some people are using Amway to scam others and Amway is losing money on that.
I feel very fortunate that I live in UK were it seems impossible to get scammed.
 
Last edited:
marplots, I've joined but I'm still learning.
I will discuss more details and the plan this Saturday.

I'm very fortunate because my first emerald in my upline helps me a lot. Much more than my first platinum and my direct sponsor.
 
marplots, I've joined but I'm still learning.
I will discuss more details and the plan this Saturday.

I'm very fortunate because my first emerald in my upline helps me a lot. Much more than my first platinum and my direct sponsor.

If you feel comfortable doing so, I'd very much like to hear about your experiences and evaluation. I'm sure others here would as well.
 
I see that Amway USA has some seroius problems.

Amway UK forbids taking payments for tools. Every help is for free and must be free.
If somebody in UK wants to make money on Amway needs to help others make money or do retail sells.
My upline keeps asking me how they can help me.
Every official amway tool is available for free on their website.

You don't even need to buy a single item to run a business. You can use videos from the website for product presentation.

I see that Amway UK is almost immune to scams. Hard to think how could you scam people.
Amway USA has some seroius holes in the system.

If leaders make money on theirs downline instead of helping them to make money, then it's a scam and company is losing money IMHO.

Amway USA is not a scam but can be easly used to scam people IMHO.

So just to be clear you won't be spending any money on business support materials? For example seminars, CD's, books etc?
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom