Is Amway A Scam?

August 30, 2011

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/08/police_shut_down_amway_operati.html

ADA – Authorities in the Indian state of Kerala have shut down Amway's operations there amid allegations the company was operating as an illegal “money chain” and “cheating,” according to Indian media accounts.

Amway spokeswoman Andrea Clark confirmed the shutdown and said the company is working with authorities to resolve the issue.

“We're doing an ethical business,” Clark said. “We're trying to educate and inform them. That's often difficult where you have people who operate unethical businesses in the direct selling business.”

One of the world's largest direct selling companies, Amway has long faced regulatory scrutiny and has spent decades fighting charges that it operates an illegal pyramid scheme. In recent years it has spent millions of dollars to rebuild its image through advertising, high-profile endorsements and marketing of its Nutrilite supplements and Artistry cosmetics lines.

In 2010 the company settled a long-running suit in California that alleged it was a pyramid scheme by agreeing to pay $56 million without admitting guilt.

In 2008 a judge in the United Kingdom threw out a case against Amway in which the company had been charged with misrepresenting its business and putting the sales of training "tools" ahead of selling products. The dismissal of the case came only after the judge decided Amway had reformed its business practices in the country.

Amway distributors in Asia and most other markets are only supposed to make money when they sell Amway products, though they can receive additional bonuses when their sales groups meet certain product sales goals.

U.S. distributors are able to make money from sales by their “downline” distributors – typically those who they helped recruit into the business -- with minimal selling on their own.

Various press accounts said local police had been “harassing” Amway distributors into providing false or misleading information about the business.

Clark said the company's business model may not be for everyone, but the Amway offers all of its distributors a full money-back guarantee.

“You have to sell products to make money,” she said.

Clark said actions by authorities in Kerala do not affect operations in the rest of India, which has become one of Amway's top 10 markets in terms of sales. The company has said it is considering building a new factory in India to serve the local market.

The company set a goal of hitting the $500 million sales mark in the country in 2012, up from around $300 million in 2010.

During the raids a photographer for a local newspaper covering the raids was detained by Amway at one of the distribution centers and his equipment seized until photographers from other media organizations covering the raid protested, according to IBN Live, an Indian news website.

A complaint against the company has been filed by a press organization there, according to The Hindu Business Line.

E-mail Chris Knape: cknape@grpress.com and follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/Kcorner
 
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So basically, I've left this thread for a bit and come right back to where I left off?

Icerat is shucking and jiving all over the place with his Clinton-esque word parsing and outright misrepresentation and everyone else is calling him on it...

In other words: SSDD...

I'll check back in later...
 
So basically, I've left this thread for a bit and come right back to where I left off?

Icerat is shucking and jiving all over the place with his Clinton-esque word parsing and outright misrepresentation and everyone else is calling him on it...

In other words: SSDD...

I'll check back in later...

What "outright misrepresentation"?

Note as per my sig I don't even see JoeCool's and NewtonTrino's posts, I got sick of dealing with their "outright misrepresentations" (and in JoeCool's case, outright falsehoods). I doubt they've changed their mantras.

BTW, a new partnership between Amway and the Detroit Red Wings announced today, including Nutrilite as official supplement.

And Amway has also said they've got double digit growth in North America this year.
 
What "outright misrepresentation"?

Note as per my sig I don't even see JoeCool's and NewtonTrino's posts, I got sick of dealing with their "outright misrepresentations" (and in JoeCool's case, outright falsehoods). I doubt they've changed their mantras.

The only misrepresentation has been on your side.

However, since you have no authority to speak for amway, nor have you created a successful amway business why would anyone listen to you anyway?
 
What "outright misrepresentation"?

Note as per my sig I don't even see JoeCool's and NewtonTrino's posts, I got sick of dealing with their "outright misrepresentations" (and in JoeCool's case, outright falsehoods). I doubt they've changed their mantras.

BTW, a new partnership between Amway and the Detroit Red Wings announced today, including Nutrilite as official supplement.

And Amway has also said they've got double digit growth in North America this year.

He doesn't read my posts, yet he suggests I am posting falsehoods? :rolleyes:

Wow, Amwya partners with the Red Wings. And that somehow makes the Amway opportunity better how? :rolleyes:

Double digit growth? Nice. What does that mean? Are IBOs making money or still getting scammed? :rolleyes:
 
Double-digit growth? Not surprising. Get-rich-quick-scams flourish in troubled economic times.

-- Roger
 
Interesting thesis. What does the 1997/1998 financial crisis and Amway sales say then?

AmwaySales1959-2010.jpg


*Note: In 1999 Amway changed from reporting estimated retail sales to reporting "wholesale" sales to distributors, under the Alticor banner.
 
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This is how Icerat diverts the conversation. Amway had good sales, Amway did well in 1998. Amway partners with the Red Wings.

The Amway IBOs are still getting scammed by motivational groups such as NETWORK 21 or WWDB and IBOs, the vast majority of them are LOSING MONEY.

IBO success has ZERO to do with how well Amway the corporation is doing. In fact, Amway's growth could indicate that even more IBOs are now losing money.
 
The only misrepresentation has been on your side.

However, since you have no authority to speak for amway, nor have you created a successful amway business why would anyone listen to you anyway?

By the way, I was once upon a time, stupid enough to join Amway. I did build a sizable business. I was one level below what is known as "platinum", or I was at 4000 PV. At that level, I was told that my net profit would be over $1000 if I built it right. I built it right, as per my upline's advice and my net profit was ZERO.

I was then told that the money would be there if I just kept going. I did the math and concluded that going platinum would likely have netted me ZERO as well, because the expectation was to reinvest your profits into more and more tools.

Although a dated study, a Wisconsin Attorney General did a study on platinums in Wisconsin and platinums on average lost $900 a year, which confirms my experience.
 
By the way, I was once upon a time, stupid enough to join Amway. I did build a sizable business. I was one level below what is known as "platinum", or I was at 4000 PV. At that level, I was told that my net profit would be over $1000 if I built it right. I built it right, as per my upline's advice and my net profit was ZERO.

I was then told that the money would be there if I just kept going. I did the math and concluded that going platinum would likely have netted me ZERO as well, because the expectation was to reinvest your profits into more and more tools.

Although a dated study, a Wisconsin Attorney General did a study on platinums in Wisconsin and platinums on average lost $900 a year, which confirms my experience.

I think it would be really interesting to see how you sold 4000 in PV as well as what your expenses were.
 
I think it would be really interesting to see how you sold 4000 in PV as well as what your expenses were.

I had 12 people personally sponsored (frontline). All told, I had about 34 IBOs or so in my group, including myself.

My expenses were possibly higher than others because I had to attend functions on the mainland (I'm from Hawaii).

My monthly expenses:

Standing order $36/month
Voicemail $20
Book of the month $10
Extra tapes/cds $144 (We were encouraged to buy 5-7 extra each week)
(You can't listen to the same one every day right?
Monthly functions $24
Monthly open meeting $6
Gas $150 (Gotta drive the miles to show the plan right?)

Total $380

However, 4 times a year we had to travel for major functions.
The last one I attended was Family Reunion, which costed $240.
However, travel in July (peak) was about $750 for a round trip ticket, airport parking, hotel, rental cars and the function ends up costing about $1300. with 4 major functions, your average monthly expense (averaged out) is another $400 a month on average.

Thus my average monthly expenses was about $780. Factor in other expenses such as sample packs, cost of catalogs, meals, business attire, etc and the monthly expense at that level exceeds $900 a month.

At 4000 PV my bonus was about $1000. I was making pennies per hour for my efforts. Prior to 4000 PV I was losing money.

P.S. I'm suire there were some other misc expenses that I have left out.

How I sold 4000 PV? Most IBOs did over 100 PV. I sold some stuff to family and friends, but other than that I had no sales other than to myself. I'm pretty sure the rest of my group was about the same. Contrary to Icerat's claim that "most" IBOs do nothing, everyone in my group at least ordered some stuff, although some ordered a little bit of stuff and did not qualify for a bonus. I also had a few who ordered stuff at first and then did nothing.

(This is based on what I remember from my IBO days).
 
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By the way, I was watching a show on Discovery the other day about lottery winners. They all seemingly have mansions and nice cars, therefore, the lottery must be a good way to earn money if we justify it with the same reasoning used by Amway diamonds. :)
 
That blogger took him down pretty hard in the comments too!

I don't think the Red Wings sponsorship is all that big a deal. Amway is a legal business and they have plenty of money to advertise with as is their right. If the Red Wings want to be associated with Amway, that is their right as well, but they have to be ready for whatever negative publicity comes their way.
There is a significant portion of their fan base who is ticked off about this, obviously, but in the end it won't really hurt them. Fans aren't stupid, they know their teams have to get advertising dollars in -this is just another advertiser which most of them will ignore. I am greatly encouraged by the overwhelmingly negative comments on various fan boards: Icerat's is the only positive one I can find.
 
Double-digit growth? Not surprising. Get-rich-quick-scams flourish in troubled economic times.

-- Roger

That double digit growth might be attributed to the large price increases on products and shipping! What a business!

Again, it's great for Amway but says nothing for the collective IBOs.
 
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I think it's funny that he refers to people retiring as Emeralds or whatever. Someone please find me these emeralds who are retired roaming the beaches of the world.

Certainly when I'm on vacation in exotic locales I don't see a lot of amway people around...
 
I think it's funny that he refers to people retiring as Emeralds or whatever. Someone please find me these emeralds who are retired roaming the beaches of the world.

Certainly when I'm on vacation in exotic locales I don't see a lot of amway people around...

It's a myth like bigfoot or UFOs. Lots of people talk about them, but no bonafide evidence that they exist.

These Amway folks don't retire. They work until they die or fade into obscurity. Even mega triple ripple diamonds are working, possibly because they have to. You can probably live a nice middle class lifestyle at the diamond level. I believe the jets and mansions paid for in cash are a myth also.

Sidenote: Icerat is now saying that Amway's toothpaste makes noticable differences on your teeth that a dentist can detect. I call BS:

http://thefactsabouttheamwayopportunity.blogspot.com/2011/09/bs-on-truth-about-amway.htm
 
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I believe the jets and mansions paid for in cash are a myth also.

I don't think they are a myth but they are reserved for those that make the most from amway. Those who started the business (e.g. those who own the corp) and those who have large side businesses selling "tools" into the organizations (Yeager, Dornan etc).
 

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