Is "activated hydrogen water" real or fake?

[jj]

From a chemist pov, the answer is, no, I can't "take apart" the 15 claims, but for a goid reason: most of it gibberish. Completely meaningless.

The phrase "it's not even wrong" comes to mind.

Exactly, not even a chemist and I can comfortably say "that isn't even wrong". You can't refute something that doesn't even use meaningful languges.

 

[Toontown]

I'm going to say "fake" without knowing anything at all about what "activated hydrogen water" is supposed to be. Like no-lookie poker, I'm betting without looking at my cards.

Because I want people to think I'm a loosey-goosey who will bet on (or in this case against) anything, without having a clue what it is.

That's right, people. I'm gambling. And I didn't even look.

 

[azzthom]

Reverses hard water and mineral buildup.
Improves water solubility by organizing water molecules reducing chemical and detergent use by 50% - 70%.
Uses 25 - 45% less fertilizer on your farm, vineyard or golf course.
Increases crop yields by 20-50%, stronger plants and raises sugar content for a sweeter taste.
Uses 15% less water on your farm, vineyard or golf course.
Balances water and soil pH improving soil conditions with activated hydrogen water.
Stops pipe corrosion (rust).
Reduces water evaporation by 35%.
Removes slime, mold and bacteria from cooling towers, public pools, spas, ponds and plumbing.
Reduces the use of antibiotics on dairy and hog farms and lowering mortality rate by more than 50%.
Stabilizes water temps in pools by .5 degrees reducing heating costs.
Significantly improves hydration, detoxification and anti-oxidation.
Insures longer produce freshness when installed on supermarket produce sprayers.
Improves skin and hair – no more skin problems
Revitalizes tap and RO (filtered) water for a smooth, velvety, sweet and clean taste as pure as nature intended

.

These claims are waaaaay beyond nonsense. They are talking about water. WATER! The claims are so ridiculous, that I consider them an insult to the intelligence of our species. Ironically, I take great comfort from the fact that whoever wrote them for that site clearly has the intellectual capacity of a yoghurt.

 

[Dinwar]

I have highlighted the relevent nonsensical portions in a cheery yellow.

Feel free to discard the company out of hand. They're nuts.

You missed one. A mineral cannot be organic. It can be made by an organism, but minerals are inorganic.

 

[Olowkow]

Here's a novel touch for instilling confidence in a product:

Warranty Disclaimer
This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied. To the fullest extent permissible pursuant to applicable law, REDOX Water Systems disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. REDOX Water Systems does not represent or warrant that the functions contained in the site will be uninterrupted or error-free, that the defects will be corrected, or that this site or the server that makes the site available are free of viruses or other harmful components. REDOX Water Systems does not make any warrantees or representations regarding the use of the materials in this site in terms of their correctness, accuracy, adequacy, usefulness, timeliness, reliability or otherwise. Some states do not permit limitations or exclusions on warranties, so the above limitations may not apply to you.

I seem to recall Judge Wapner saying the you could not a priori cancel any warranty of fitness for use. It is stipulated when one makes a sale.

 

[John Jones]

I'm trying to figure out if this company's product is legitimate, but I lack the scientific knowledge to make an informed judgment. Some of the wording on their website seems suspicious. Could someone who understands chemistry please take a look and give me your thoughts? Thank you in advance.

It's fake. Period.

 

[azzthom]

Here's a novel touch for instilling confidence in a product:



I seem to recall Judge Wapner saying the you could not a priori cancel any warranty of fitness for use. It is stipulated when one makes a sale.

I'm pretty sure that in most (or all) of the U.S.A. and Europe, the consumer protection laws are very strict about that sort of thing. Companies cannot opt out of the sections governing fitness for use. That's certainly the case in the U.K.

 

[John Jones]

I'm a chemist.

It's nonsense.

I hope that helps.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

The site reads like complete woo but digging around I found some papers that are 7 years old or so. Any stuff subsequent from others?

Here's some of their linked papers:

http://pursanova.com/download/Analytical_ Science.pdf
http://pursanova.com/download/EC_BIOLOGY.pdf

I don't have the background to comment much on them but they suggest some rather unusual properties which seem unlikely.

I'm not sure of the second link, but the first link deals entirely with resistivity vs temperature of ice. I've not seen any claims that differences in resistivity in ice correspond to measurable properties in liquid water. That is, the paper is entirely irrelevant to the company's claims.

So, yeah, add my voice to the chorus: complete woo.

You missed one. A mineral cannot be organic. It can be made by an organism, but minerals are inorganic.

Coal?

 

[Dinwar]

Coal?

Technically, coal isn't a mineral. Graphite is, but it's chemically altered to the point where it's not organic anymore.

 

[marting]

Any comments on their Published Paper?
"Analysis of Ice Water by the Thermally Stimulated Depolarized Current (TSDC) Method"

http://pursanova.com/download/Analytical_ Science.pdf

 

[Olowkow]

Any comments on their Published Paper?
"Analysis of Ice Water by the Thermally Stimulated Depolarized Current (TSDC) Method"

http://pursanova.com/download/Analytical_%20Science.pdf

I'm confused. Why would anyone assume that a peer reviewed paper linked from a bogus product site might have any relevance whatsoever to the bogus product? They could link JREF if they wanted to.

ETA: Perhaps your question is about the de-ionized (they call it "ion exchanged") water that they used in the paper. The Millipore apparatus mentioned is common in chem labs to substitute in many applications for distilled water. It is not bogus.

 

[Hydrogen Hypothesis]

Knowing little chemistry I can still see they are bull-hooey. All one need know here is that while water does indeed change its structure, it changes constantly in literally picoseconds, so their claim of restructuring is meaningless. For more on this check out http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html on clustering and water scams in general.

 

[shadron]

Technically, coal isn't a mineral. Graphite is, but it's chemically altered to the point where it's not organic anymore.

I kinda hate to get into this sort of thing, but as a matter of principle, consider a kidney stone; they are mainly urea crystals, and the urea is organic, and are produced in the body. Not a mineral? Perhaps, but look here: http://www.mindat.org/min-4117.html; they say it's mined in Australia. That damned organic barrier seems to be leaking again.

However. I fully agree that the claims made about water here are pure urea (derived from bat guano; see above).

 

[shadron]

I'm pretty sure that in most (or all) of the U.S.A. and Europe, the consumer protection laws are very strict about that sort of thing. Companies cannot opt out of the sections governing fitness for use. That's certainly the case in the U.K.

It is also in the Common Commercial Code which most states have adopted as their common business law in the US. The makers can attempt all they want to relieve themselves of fitness of purpose liability, but contracts (which is what this is trying to to be) just aren't recognized as overcoming the basic laws of business relationships.

 

[Dinwar]

I kinda hate to get into this sort of thing, but as a matter of principle, consider a kidney stone; they are mainly urea crystals, and the urea is organic, and are produced in the body. Not a mineral? Perhaps, but look here: http://www.mindat.org/min-4117.html; they say it's mined in Australia. That damned organic barrier seems to be leaking again.

See, I was waiting for someone to mention something like that. This is one of my "pull pin, run away" questions.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

And, just to make your day complete, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral

The Strunz classification includes a class for organic minerals class. These rare compounds contain organic carbon, but can be formed by a geologic process.

 

[marting]

I'm confused. Why would anyone assume that a peer reviewed paper linked from a bogus product site might have any relevance whatsoever to the bogus product? They could link JREF if they wanted to.

ETA: Perhaps your question is about the de-ionized (they call it "ion exchanged") water that they used in the paper. The Millipore apparatus mentioned is common in chem labs to substitute in many applications for distilled water. It is not bogus.

I would agree but the paper is not a random, unrelated paper.

Also by Sato is this paper which has some overlap with the first:

http://pursanova.com/download/EC_BIOLOGY.pdf

Which says the "structure" of water is changed by treatment with certain ceramics. Oh, and it has different biological properties too like suppressing E. Coli growth. Are these guys part of the OP linked business? Dreams of big bucks send them off the deep, watery end?

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Frankly, I would be greatly disturbed if I felt that "alive," "animated," and/or "vigorous" were apt descriptions of any water in my vicinity.

 

[fuelair]

So maybe the special orbs are made of hydrochloric acid...

That would not affect the water in any way that applied to their claims. Short version: the water molecule has a very specific arrangement with specific bond angles and a specific number of atoms and is slightly positive on the H end and slightly negative on the O end. Thus polar. Nothing they can do "improves" that - so it does not make it better water.
This is, without quibble, a large load of fecal matter and intended purely as a method of transferring finances from your pocket to their offshore accounts.