Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

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Some new things I've learned about the Mozplasma and Mozeparation.

Dear reader, you'll recall that "the SERTS space program" is what MM thinks provides iron-clad proof (sorry, couldn't resist) for both the composition of the Mozplasma and Mozeparation in action.

Unfortunately, the link on his website, allegedly to SERTS, doesn't work; in addition, nowhere does he cite any papers published (in a relevant, peer-reviewed journal) by the SERTS team/program, so there seems to be no way to independently validate what he says (sound familiar?).

However, there are many 'SERTS papers' (my quick check found >80; likely there are more) and this 1994 one ("Extreme ultraviolet spectrum of a solar active region from SERTS") contains, in Table 4, a list of EUV lines observed and identified, sorted by ion and transition (why MM ignored all the other papers reporting VUV and EUV spectroscopic observations of the Sun I have no idea; they include the following: EIS/Hinode, SOHO/SUMER, EUNIS, SPIRIT/CORONAS-F, and CDS/SOHO).

Ranked by the number of isoelectronic sequences found, the elements detected are:

Fe (9)
Mg (5)
Ni (5)
S (5)
Si (5)
Al (4)
Ca (4)
Ne (4)
Ar (3)
Cr (3)
O (3)
Mn (2)
Na (2)
C (1)
Co (1)
He (1)
K (1)
Ti (1)
Zn (1)

Now the full sentence (the only one?), on his website, where MM references SERTS is as follows: "The SERTS space program has also documented the entire range of ferrite ion emissions, not to mention ions from calcium magnesium, chromium, manganese, aluminum, silicon, neon, and helium from these arcs"

So why are Ni, S, Ar, O, Na, C, Co, K, Ti, and Zn omitted?

It gets considerably more curious.

Consider these sentences by MM, in this very thread:
"It depends on what elements we mix into the neon and there's pretty much every elements in the SERTS data inside every layer." (source)
"Yes, and likewise the elements in the neon also give of light." (source; I think he meant to write "Yes, and likewise the elements in the neon layer also give off light."
"I already said for the record that I could see through at least 2000KM and probably at least 3000KM of neon, and my model has a *THICKER* silicon plasma layer under that if you read through my website!" (source)
"You see all those various ionization states of neon, oxygen, silicon, etc, at all different temperatures" (source)
"I would expect a mixture of elements in every layer"(source)
"Something however keeps the mass flows "fixed" if very "rigid" patterns and produces energy releases that are highly consistent with volcanic activity, including the sulfur excesses you'll find in the SERTS data during the sun's "active" phases, along with an increase in Nickel" (source)

So MM explicitly recognises that O, Ni, and S are in the various plasma layers (but still missing are Ar, Na, C, Co, K, Ti, and Zn).

The really strange part of MM's Mozplasma, the various layers, starts with this statement: "The sun has a solid and electrically conductive crust that is covered by a series of mass separated plasma layers, starting with calcium, silicon, neon, helium and finally a layer of hydrogen that ultimately ignites in the corona.", and the accompanying diagram says "All layers arranged by atomic weight".

So how did MM arrive at just five/six layers? Why not 10 (add Mg, Cr, Mn, and Al)? or 13 (add O, Ni, and S)? or 20 (add Ar, Na, C, Co, K, Ti, and Zn)?

And if, indeed, the elements are "mass separated" "by atomic weight", why is iron at the bottom, and not cobalt, nickel, or zinc? Why does a neon layer lie underneath the helium one, and not a carbon or oxygen one (or both)?

And if the elements are "mass separated" "by atomic weight", how come "there's pretty much every elements [sic] in the SERTS data inside every layer"?

Finally, the truly magical nature of the Mozplasma is revealed ... it is tens of thousands of km deep, has ~20 elements present, at "various ionization states [...] at all different temperatures", and is transparent to VUV and EUV light! :eek: :jaw-dropp

There's also these doozies: "Birkeland started with a hollow metallic sphere, turned it into a cathode, added a plasma atmosphere, added lots of control mechanisms and evaluated wavelengths to try to understand what he was seeing." (source) - Birkeland "added a plasma atmosphere"?!? and he did EUV and VUV spectroscopy?!? The mind boggles.

"You folks still ridicule Alfven and he agreed in electric sun theory. Did you forget him? Did you forget Donald Scott? Did you forget Dr. Charles Bruce? Did you forget Anthony Perrat? How many "scientists" are you willing to ignore to make up such silly statements?" (source) - Alfvén not only agreed with "the electric sun theory", but he did so before Scott even published it?!? The man was obviously both an oracle and a prophet :p

"Even if it turns out that the sun does not have a "solid", but only a "rigid" layer of iron plasma, it would still be a "Birkeland solar model" so long as it acts as a cathode and discharges to the heliosphere." (source) - of course real cathodes emit only electrons; in MM's solar "model" the Birkeland cathode is replaced by a magic Moz-physics bunny, the Mozode.

"Just as Dr. Birkeland predicted, the sun has a solid, electrically conductive surface that is composed of iron ferrites and Nickel composites" (MM's website) - I don't think the word "ferrites" appears anywhere in Birkeland's works (nor "Nickel composites"); time to add "predicted" to the list?
 
Keep it civil please. Address the argument, not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
Paravolt said:
I belive if the sun is shining due to electrical processes - it shurely must be a part of a larger electrical circuit with electrons flowing in Bircelands currents (twisted plasma-ropes carrying charge).
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Have any of these ever been observed (by remote observation) or detected (by in situ space probes)? And, for avoidance of doubt, I mean "twisted plasma-ropes" carrying sufficient charge to power the Sun.

My best guess is that there should be an electrical "input" in the polar regions and a "output" on the rest of the sphere - but the where the solar wind organizes itself close to one plane resembling the spiraling arms of a "galaxy".
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As when a qualified doctor diagnoses a patient's illness (or condition), scientists do not "guess"; instead they rely upon empirical evidence, which can be independently verified. When it comes to the "model" or "theory" which enters into the diagnosis, I'm pretty sure qualified doctors depend just as much on papers published in relevant, peer-reviewed journals as astrophysicists do. And those doing research pretty quickly identify, and publish, inconsistencies (etc).

Do you have anything more than a guess?

I'm not that into the different EU solar models - but shurely there would need to be a electrical circuit one way or another - so not to accumulate charge.
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Yes, you're right.

Unfortunately, the most widely promoted "EU solar model" - that of Scott (and Thornhill) - is quite explicit on this ... the Sun (and stars in general) are cathodes (or, occasionally, anodes), and there is no 'return circuit' (charge accumulation is inevitable) - check out this website for more details.

MM's solar "model" - which we are, supposedly, focusing on in this thread - relies on something which has never been seen in any lab experiment on Earth, the Mozode; it's a quite magical electric device which ensures that charge does not accumulate, but which nonetheless is a critical electrical component that is otherwise just a cathode.
 
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FYI.....

Most EU solar models have *SOME* internal power, albeit a small percentage in some cases. I'm not sure if anyone actually promotes a fully externally powered solar model.
 
How exactly would an iron sun form? How and where would the elements that form the iron sun be created?
 
I may have misunderstood something here.

The electric universe model seems to require a flow of electrons charging up the sun thereby powering it?
Where do those electrons come from?
Where do they go?
Where is the energy coming from?

A regular capacitor does not (in theory) consume power when charging, it just stores energy, and there are electrons leaving the other side/plate.

I have noticed that the model is proved wrong by lots of orders of magnitude, but how is it supposed to work?
 
Toke said:
I have noticed that the model is proved wrong by lots of orders of magnitude, but how is it supposed to work?
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No answer has ever been forthcoming. I think they just have faith that somehow it'll all work out.
 
Ziggurat said:
No answer has ever been forthcoming. I think they just have faith that somehow it'll all work out.
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I see, kind of disappointing.
Guess MM is not the only one of the type.
(I was just kind of hoping there were more to it.)
 
Michael Mozina said:
FYI.....

Most EU solar models have *SOME* internal power, albeit a small percentage in some cases. I'm not sure if anyone actually promotes a fully externally powered solar model.
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Notice that quantitatively that would be "most", "*SOME*", "a small percentage in some cases", and "fully". :p
 
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Michael Mozina said:
FYI.....

Most EU solar models have *SOME* internal power, albeit a small percentage in some cases. I'm not sure if anyone actually promotes a fully externally powered solar model.
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You jest, surely.

You, of all people, must be familiar with the infamous Thornhill "The Z-Pinch Morphology of Supernova 1987A and Electric Stars", aren't you?

And as you are, you are also fully aware that this relies on a certain D. Scott's book, particularly wrt what powers the Sun (and stars), aren't you?
 
Michael Mozina said:
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. Our sun is part of a much larger galactic circuit.
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Which Birkeland simulated, in his lab, right?

And in this new, fully revised and updated MM solar "model", what is the role of the Mozode? of the heliosphere (or heliopause or heliosheath)? Where, and how, do charges enter the heliosphere? exit the heliosphere? How is the heliopause (or heliosheath) connected to the Sun, in terms of electric current?
 
Toke said:
I see, kind of disappointing.
Guess MM is not the only one of the type.
(I was just kind of hoping there were more to it.)
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There's a great deal of detailed, quantitative debunking of Electric Sun ideas on Tom Bridgman's blog, here.
 
Michael Mozina said:
It's really only a waste of time because none of you seem even the least bit interested in "understanding" a Birkeland solar model. Instead it's been a exercise in pure denial. It's like Birkeland never existed, and never wrote about a solar model *EVER*. In fact GM has been claiming for years that Birkeland didn't even *HAVE* a solar model and NONE of you set him straight. Not one of you.
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Well I will.
GeeMack: Birkeland did have a "solar model". It consisted of
  • Sunspots look like the pattern of discharges from a brass ball in my Tessella experiment.
  • Flares look like this other pattern of discharges from a brass ball in my Tessella experiment.
  • I see stuff on the glass walls of my vacuum chamber. So the Sun must also eject stuff. I think this stuff is electrons and ions.
Of course you, me, most other posters and every scientist in the world knows that this is not a scientific model. It is a set of observations and suggestions that they relate to the Sun.
The only thing Birkeland got right was the last one - the Sun ejects the stuff known as the solar wind.

The rest of "Birkeland's solar model" are Michael Mozina's lies and mistrpresentations about the book:
  1. Where is the the solar wind and the appropriate math in Birkeland's book?
  2. Please cite where in his book Birkeland identified fission as the "original current source"
  3. Please cite where in his book Birkeland identified a discharge process between the Sun's surface and the heliosphere (about 10 billion kilometers from the Sun).
  4. Is Saturn the Sun?
  5. Question about "streams of electrons" for Micheal Mozina
  6. Citation for Birkeland's prediction for the speed of the solar wind
  7. Where is the solar model that predicts the SDO images in Birkeland's book? (really a follow on to questions dating from July 2009)
  8. Are galaxies electrical discharges from magnetized iron spheres (Birkelands "nebulae model")?
  9. Where in Birkeland's book does he state that the Sun is a metal globe?
 
DeiRenDopa said:
Some new things I've learned about the Mozplasma and Mozeparation.

Dear reader, you'll recall that "the SERTS space program" is what MM thinks provides iron-clad proof (sorry, couldn't resist) for both the composition of the Mozplasma and Mozeparation in action.

Unfortunately, the link on his website, allegedly to SERTS, doesn't work; in addition, nowhere does he cite any papers published (in a relevant, peer-reviewed journal) by the SERTS team/program, so there seems to be no way to independently validate what he says (sound familiar?).
Click to expand...

FWIW, about 2400 posts back, MM posted a link to a SERTS paper from 1990: Photospheric abundances of Oxygen, Neon, and Argon derived from the XUV spectrum of a coronal flare (post 1529)

I don't feel that it validates MM's model (and I think I've been pretty clear about that over the last few weeks), but he did post a link.
 
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