Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

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The thing I find so strange about your theory is that if the mainstream theories have such a 'huge' problem, why doesn't it show up in any of the other parts of mainstream physics?

Because everything is pretty much based on math rather than observation. If it didn't fit, it was made to fit. Now comes the "test" in SDO observations. Ooops, it *FLUNKED* the first opacity test in brilliant green living color. Now what?

Its not like these calculations are only used for solar imaging. So if there is such a massive error it should show up in any field using optics and electomagnetism, which would include all laser/microscopy/electronmicroscopy/television/radar and many more technologies.

I'm not aware of any technology that relies upon the makeup on the sun. I'm sure the calculations work, they simply don't apply because the sun isn't simply a ball of gas.

Yet all of these do not report said error, nor are the predictions made using the standard model incorrect.
Inversely, would your model hold up when making predictive calculations for all these fields?

Well, my model is completely congruent with electrical engineering for starters, whereas Alfven called "magnetic reconnection" a form of pseudoscience. That alone should give you a heads up.

They are far more easy to test than the solar model and would go a great length to validating your idea.

If you take the time to checkout Birkeland's work with terellas (Metal spheres) in a vacuum, you'll find he's already tested all the core components.
That is light years ahead of any testing done on current theory in the lab.

What I've also still not seen (though maybe I've missed in in the posts) is how you propose your 'crust model' actually formed. Matter being attracted by gravity does not on its own form a hollow shell, but rather will form a globe with the heaviest material in the middle, as seen from all the other planets and planetoids in the solar system and shown by experiments on gravity. What is the lower limit in your theory for the warping of gravity to that extent?

This model presumes that the core is composed of hot pressurized plasma and is influenced by the EM fields of the universe itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsvy2tBJlU
 
Are you aware that you are displaying the symptoms of a crank

First asked 3 May 2010
Michael Mozina,
Are you aware that you are displaying the symptoms of a crank or crackpot?
  1. No actual scientific model so you have no way of making any quantitative predictions.
    The scientific theory has a model, makes predictions and these are found to be correct.
  2. Your fantasy* has not changed significantly in the 4 or more years that you have been touting it. All you have been doing is bolting on more stuff withough addressing the fundemental flaw - your iron crust cannot exist.
  3. Ignoring the lack of evidence for your fantasy*.
  4. No scientific analysis of any observational data about the Sun. All you do is take the images constructed from the data and imagine that you see things in them (the "I see bunnies in pretty pictures" anaysis!).
  5. A rather astounding lack of knowledge of physics, especially in relation to the Sun, e.g. you were ignorant of optical depth.
  6. A nasty dependence on argument by authority, incuding attributing your fantasy to Birkeland.
    It is almost as if the only physics books that you have ever read are by Birkeland and Alfven. Even then you get a lot wrong about Birkeland 's book.
  7. An inability to answer questions (over 60 now in my list!).
  8. Unable to understand the logical fallacy of false dichotomy.
    Any defects with the standard model does not support your fantasy.
  9. Displays of the repetative behaviour typical of cranks or crackpots.
    The biggest one is the continuous posting of images that just display your lack of understanding of them.
That is the image that MM is totally ignoring as in this question (number 60 of 64 :eye-poppi !)
*A fantasy because it violates thermodynamics, e.g see Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked!
The fact that it fails many other observations (an iron crust at a temperature of > 9400 K :jaw-dropp ) and predicts absolutely nothing just makes it a joke. See the over 60 questions that Michael Mozina is incapable of answering.
 
Another symptom of a crank or crakpot - YouTube link

This model presumes that the core is composed of hot pressurized plasma and is influenced by the EM fields of the universe itself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsvy2tBJlU
Especially insane in this case because the video is "Zero gravity water bubble and Alka Seltzer experiment"!
  1. No "hot pressurized plasma".
  2. No "influence by the EM fields of the universe itself".
And of course the vague, unphysical "hot pressurized plasma and is influenced by the EM fields of the universe itself" statement that we see from other electric sun/universe/comet cranks.
 
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171surfaceshotsmall.JPG

20050527-1913.JPG

D'rok...

These two images are what started my whole process in motion. RD images are not just a "distraction', they are the "main event' from my perspective, and they always have been. If you notice all the rigid features in both images, those features are "persistent" over days, weeks, and sometimes a month, whereas features in the photosphere come and go in approximately 8 minute intervals. It was precisely these rigid persistent features that got me interested in the surface concept in the first place.

If LMSAL is correct and these 'structures' exist in the upper atmosphere, then the RD images will show that in terms of the relationship of the RD outline to the chromosphere. That's not even logical however since there is no real way to explain the persistence in the first place it is only made of light plasma somewhere above the photosphere.

The only way for this model to work is *if* RD images relate to something *UNDER*, not above the chromosphere. It won't work any other way.

Until SDO, IMO there was no definitive way to decide the clear outlines with enough resolution to be sure where the RD outlined disk will reside in relationship to that chromosphere. With SDO however that is entirely possible and the outcome is "make or break" for this solar model.

Keep in mind this model "predicted" those pretty green lines.
sd01.jpg


In the full sphere RD image what we should see is the outline of the disk with the rigid features tucks nicely inside the chromosphere, and those bottom green lines you see should show up as lines in the RD image too. There is a enough resolution now to see both the edge of the sphere and the lines. That "test" is critical as it relates to both solar models. Only one model will pass, and the other will fail. It's a valid falsification mechanism for this model for sure, even if they won't agree that it falsifies their model. It's not a "distraction" in any way, it's a critical test that this model must past because it "predicts" this location must relate to the location of the surface and that has to be under the chromosphere. If this model doesn't pass that test, it curtains for this model.

The reason I've been leaning on GM to ante up on this issue is because it's his 'specialty' according to him. You'd think he be eager to prove me wrong on the one thing he's claimed to "understand" now for 5 years.
 
Michael, from my perspective, none of what you do is science in any meaningful sense of the word. I think you enjoy the attention you receive here, negative though it is. I have been lurking in your various JREF threads for quite a while, and I have seen absolutely every aspect of your model authoritatively demolished time and time again. I've even skimmed some of the threads on other sites where precisely the same thing happens. And yet you continue to find new ways to avoid coming to terms with your own mistakes at the same time as you continue to find new ways to repeat them. You duck, dodge and weave when cornered, and retreat into false bravado when no other avenue is left for escape.

In my mind, you are an Internet legend, but not for the reasons you might like.

I wonder if Michael knows what the word egregious means.
 
Especially insane in this case because the video is "Zero gravity water bubble and Alka Seltzer experiment"!
  1. No "hot pressurized plasma".
  2. No "influence by the EM fields of the universe itself".
And of course the vague, unphysical "hot pressurized plasma and is influenced by the EM fields of the universe itself" statement that we see from other electric sun/universe/comet cranks.

So which of my three predictions were you prepared to ante up your public opinion on? Ne+3? RD images?

That green light was "predicted' in this model RC. Your model flunked it's first observation test in SDO. What shall we do about that? Ignore it?
 
Michael Mozina: Are galaxies electrical discharges from magnetized iron spheres

Keep reading. I think the solar implications get covered around page 660 or so.
That is correct as I posted before.
These are as you state "implications" or as Birkeland states analogies of sunspots and flares on the Sun.
There is no solar model in the book. Birkeland never published a solar model. His speculations about the Sun are downplayed because people understand that the knowledge of 100 years ago limited his ideas.

First asked 3 May 2010
Knowledge progresses so the knowledge of a scientist 100 years is vastly different (and less) from the knowledge of a scientist today.
Someone ignorant of that fact would read Birkeland's book and think that he had a "solar model".
Someone ignorant of that fact would read Birkeland's book and also think that he had a "nebulae model".

Michael Mozina,
Are galaxies electrical discharges from magnetized iron spheres?

If they are not then why are Birkeland's ideas about the Sun not as invalid as his ideas about galaxies? He has exactly the same evidence - they look alike.

Many thanks, Tim Thompson for On Kristian Birkeland and Solar Models

If anyone is interested, the full text of his book "Norwegian Aurora Polaris Expedition, 1901-1902" Volumes I and II is available for free. It is a 158 MB PDF file.



The speculative parts of the book start on page 611 with
  • Chapter V "IS IT POSSIBLE TO EXPLAIN ZODIACAL LIGHT, COMETS' TAILS, AND SATURN'S RING BY MEANS OF CORPUSCULAR RAYS?"
and continue into
  • Chapter VI "ON POSSIBLE ELECTRIC PHENOMENA IN SOLAR SYSTEMS AND NEBULAE."
    N.B. We now know that "nebulae" are galaxies.
The Sun is covered from page 662 ("Experiments showing Analogies to Solar Phenomena").
 
Michael, from my perspective, none of what you do is science in any meaningful sense of the word.

So even though I "predicted" those green lines *BEFORE* we saw the SDO images, that didn't mean a thing in your mind? The fact their theory forbids them doesn't mean anything to you?

I think you enjoy the attention you receive here, negative though it is.

Er, no. Being called a fraud wasn't fun for me. I about came unglued in fact. I don't much care for all the below the belt BS that goes on around here.

I have been lurking in your various JREF threads for quite a while, and I have seen absolutely every aspect of your model authoritatively demolished time and time again.

SDO authoritatively demolished the standard model D'rok. Those green lines are not supposed to be there. Only Birkeland's solar model 'predicts' that. They "destroyed" their own math bunnies. Nature destroyed their solar model.

I've even skimmed some of the threads on other sites where precisely the same thing happens. And yet you continue to find new ways to avoid coming to terms with your own mistakes at the same time as you continue to find new ways to repeat them. You duck, dodge and weave when cornered, and retreat into false bravado when no other avenue is left for escape.

In my mind, you are an Internet legend, but not for the reasons you might like.

Oh, I'm well aware of what everyone thinks of me at the moment, and I'm well aware of what's about to happen to solar physics as a result of SDO too. I have not dodged or weaved from the questions I can answer, but I personally can't answer every secret of the universe or everything there is to know about Birkeland's solar model and how it applies. I simply do my best and focus on what I can answer.

I think you're being unfairly critical of this model, particularly in light of the SDO first light images. Both the MDI Doppler images and the AIA images show "persistent features" in them at about 4800KM. There is no way to simply ignore those persistent features under the photosphere.

I can't honestly say I blame you for thinking I'm nuts, but those green lines aren't my imagination and standard theory failed it's first critical test. What shall I do, ignore it?
 
I wonder if Michael knows what the word egregious means.

He can surely google it, I just did. :)
I don't have to be a physicist for this tread to set off my crackpot detector. :D
(there are noticeable characteristics in behaviour)
 
Ok RC, time for your list. Let's start with:

Why is it light green under the chomosphere all along the limb of SDO images?

What are those persistent features we see in RD images?

Where will find the edge of the disk in an SDO RD image, inside or outside the chromosphere? Pick a from the based of the chomosphere and state it in kilometers.

Why is there interference only in 94A wavelength?

How long of a list would you like as it relates to SDO images and your dying solar model?
 
He can surely google it, I just did. :)
I don't have to be a physicist for this tread to set off my crackpot detector. :D
(there are noticeable characteristics in behaviour)

It's oh so easy to take cheap shots. It's so much harder to put up real numbers and make real testable predictions related to SDO images. Thus far standard theory has *FLUNKED* every SDO test on the books. What test does it pass in SDO?
 
Because everything is pretty much based on math rather than observation. If it didn't fit, it was made to fit. Now comes the "test" in SDO observations. Ooops, it *FLUNKED* the first opacity test in brilliant green living color. Now what?

No, in physics the math is actually based on the observation, with the maths continually redefined to better fit the observation, not the other way around.

I'm not aware of any technology that relies upon the makeup on the sun. I'm sure the calculations work, they simply don't apply because the sun isn't simply a ball of gas.

No, but as I said the physical models used for solar observation are used to make everything else to do with optics, many instruments of which are extremely sensitive and would pick up such errors. Yet they do not

Well, my model is completely congruent with electrical engineering for starters, whereas Alfven called "magnetic reconnection" a form of pseudoscience. That alone should give you a heads up.

I'm sure that your theory is compatible with electrical engineering, especially as opacity and absorbtion of of photons have absolutely nothing to do with how electrons move trough conductive material. I am equally certain that your theory is fully compatible with plate tectonics. However, having looked at your site, I have not seen a single mathematical model which validates your theory and yet also agrees with the known results of day to day optics and quantum physics. Bear in mind that the LHC so far is still giving results predicted by the standard model, even though hundreds of earger young PhD's and postdoc's working there would like nothing better than to prove their professors wrong and become the next einstein.

If you take the time to checkout Birkeland's work with terellas (Metal spheres) in a vacuum, you'll find he's already tested all the core components.
That is light years ahead of any testing done on current theory in the lab.

I have taken a look at Birkeland's work. Its a very nice and elegant way of simulating the earth's magnetosphere and is still considered highly in the research in that field. However, that sphere was merely made that way to create a magnetic field similar to the one of earth. And since the earth's magnetic field indeed originates from a metallic sphere in the center of the earth it is as accurate as could be done at the time. It does not presume that the earth IS a hollow sphere of iron and his work says nothing about the composition or inner working of the sun.


This model presumes that the core is composed of hot pressurized plasma and is influenced by the EM fields of the universe itself:

I'm sure it does, but what calculations prove the model and give predictive results that have the same margin of error as the current standard model?
Where does the original iron come from? What made it form a hollow sphere that still has hot plasma inside and does not explode? Why only the sun and not every other planet? Anyone can postulate a model, but if that model does not come with maths that predict nature as we can observe it, it is just an unproven theory.

I've seen you use the analogy of water bubbles in previous posts, but do you have anything that actually holds up in space? After all, water bubbles have a strict upper limit in size, they cannot be scaled up, as a thicker layer of water immediately collapses, they are not formed by ice, nor are magma bubbles observed and the starting materials of the sun would not be in a molten form as there would be no initial heat to melt them.

The other thing you keep going on about are 'persistant features' Now, I am in no way convinced that you actually see them, as the images show snapshots to look for something totally different, but GM and sol have explained that in detail.
However even IF there is a persistant feature, why assume it is solid? The Gulf stream is a persistant feature on earth, neither it, nor its 'banks' are solid. The movement of air is reasonably persistant, especially round the equator. The great red spot is a persistant feature on jupiter, yet not solid. The bands of color on jupiter and saturn are persistant, yet not solid. Why assume solitidy in the sun?
 
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http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/171surfaceshotsmall.JPG
http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/20050527-1913.JPG
D'rok...

These two images are what started my whole process in motion. RD images are not just a "distraction', they are the "main event' from my perspective, and they always have been. If you notice all the rigid features in both images, those features are "persistent" over days, weeks, and sometimes a month, whereas features in the photosphere come and go in approximately 8 minute intervals. It was precisely these rigid persistent features that got me interested in the surface concept in the first place.

If LMSAL is correct and these 'structures' exist in the upper atmosphere, then the RD images will show that in terms of the relationship of the RD outline to the chromosphere. That's not even logical however since there is no real way to explain the persistence in the first place it is only made of light plasma somewhere above the photosphere.

The only way for this model to work is *if* RD images relate to something *UNDER*, not above the chromosphere. It won't work any other way.

Until SDO, IMO there was no definitive way to decide the clear outlines with enough resolution to be sure where the RD outlined disk will reside in relationship to that chromosphere. With SDO however that is entirely possible and the outcome is "make or break" for this solar model.

Keep in mind this model "predicted" those pretty green lines.
http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/sdo/sd01.jpg

In the full sphere RD image what we should see is the outline of the disk with the rigid features tucks nicely inside the chromosphere, and those bottom green lines you see should show up as lines in the RD image too. There is a enough resolution now to see both the edge of the sphere and the lines. That "test" is critical as it relates to both solar models. Only one model will pass, and the other will fail. It's a valid falsification mechanism for this model for sure, even if they won't agree that it falsifies their model. It's not a "distraction" in any way, it's a critical test that this model must past because it "predicts" this location must relate to the location of the surface and that has to be under the chromosphere. If this model doesn't pass that test, it curtains for this model.

The reason I've been leaning on GM to ante up on this issue is because it's his 'specialty' according to him. You'd think he be eager to prove me wrong on the one thing he's claimed to "understand" now for 5 years.

Or your conclusions could be based on false premises pulled from your own imagination and are therefore wrong.

This is a point that you never seem to grasp. You require your interlocutors to respond to your posturing by accepting all of your bizarre premises as if it's only a couple of observational details in the conclusion that are in doubt. No. It's the whole frakkin edifice of error and self-delusion that is the problem. Even the parameters you've set for failure for yourself in this challenge of yours are false - because they require accepting your methods as valid.

You've got to where you are because you are on a false path. You invite everone down that path and treat it as if its a settled thing. No.

Your methodology is wrong. Your assumptions are wrong. Your analysis is woefully incomplete and, I'm sorry, obviously incompetent. Your challenge is unanswerable because it is worthless.

It would be like me insisting that the celestial teapot that I am sure I have observed orbiting the earth has a measurable snout. See! Here it is in this image! When the new telescope with the hi-res camera goes online, I predict that I will measure that snout to be 6 inches. Why can't your standard model predict the length of the snout? Huh? Huh? Victory is mine!
 
More bunnies in images.

I realize now why I beat you guys figuring it out via satellite imagery. I don't know why we bother even taking satellite images with your attitude. You ignore them entirely. You throw away pixels like they are meaningless and you're about as inattentive to detail as you can possibly be. Your solar model *FAILED* it's opaque math bunny test. Are you aware you're in denial?
 
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How can we detect the less than 1 photon per year from your iron crust

I asked this previously but Michael Mozina is now back to his 4800 kilometer claim (even worse for his fantasy*!).

First asked 24 April 2010 (revised 3 May 2010)
Michael Mozina,
How can we detect the less than 1 photon per year from your iron crust against the background of the existing emission of the Sun?

Yet another question arises:
We already know that you iron crust cannot exist (Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked! ).

First asked 24 April 2010
Michael Mozina,
The opacity of the photoshere means that if all of the light that we see from the Sun was emitted from your impossible iron crust at 3000 km then we would see 1 photon every 4 years. The best that we can see from your crust would be 1 photon per year at 2100 km.

How can we detect the 1 photon per year from your iron crust against the background of the existing emission of the Sun?

*A fantasy because it violates thermodynamics, e.g see Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked!
The fact that it fails many other observations (an iron crust at a temperature of > 9400 K :jaw-dropp ) and predicts absolutely nothing just makes it a joke. See the over 60 questions that Michael Mozina is incapable of answering.
 
I realize now why I beat you guys figuring it out via satellite imagery.
...snipped usual rant...
I realize now that you are totally ignorant of what the SDO images are. They are:
  1. Public relations images created by an artist from
  2. First light data, i.e. before the instrument was tested and calibrated . The first actual scientific data is due mid-May.
Are you aware you're in denial, delusion and ignorance with your iron crust fantasy that it violates thermodynamics, e.g see Micheal Mozina's iron crust has been debunked!
The fact that it fails many other observations (an iron crust at a temperature of > 9400 K :jaw-dropp ) and predicts absolutely nothing just makes it a joke. See the over 60 questions that Michael Mozina is incapable of answering.
 
Or your conclusions could be based on false premises pulled from your own imagination and are therefore wrong.

One RD test should determine that.

This is a point that you never seem to grasp. You require your interlocutors to respond to your posturing by accepting all of your bizarre premises as if it's only a couple of observational details in the conclusion that are in doubt. No. It's the whole frakkin edifice of error and self-delusion that is the problem. Even the parameters you've set for failure for yourself in this challenge of yours are false - because they require accepting your methods as valid.


Let's try walking a mile in my shoes now. They claim the photosphere is "opaque" and iron floats around with hydrogen. I'm supposed to just 'accept'
these claims as true. The first SDO test shows they are NOT true. Talk about delusions. Nobody seems to want to look at those green lines or notice that the SSM has been falsified. It's like everyone is blind and simply cannot or will not look at that math bunny disaster along the limbs of the SDO image. It's pure denial around here.

Your methodology is wrong. Your assumptions are wrong. Your analysis is woefully incomplete and, I'm sorry, obviously incompetent. Your challenge is unanswerable because it is worthless.

If my challenge we unanswerable I would not have asked it, and you can test it for yourself and find out if I'm right. What exactly would you like me to do? What did they do? What can I test of their claim in an SDO image that doesn't go down in green flames?

I gave you a perfectly valid way to falsify this model, with or without a competitive option. You got a number from me. You can check it out without them giving you anything. If I'm right, then what?
 
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