Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Michael Mozina said:
I don't have access to my copy of the SERTS data from where I am right now, and it looks like the SERTS link is now offline, so I can't post the link at the moment. I will upload my copy of the SERTS data and post it later today or tomorrow. In there you'll find all sorts of highly ionized neon ions emitting most of the light, and little or no light from the lower ionization states, so that concept simply doesn't fly.
Click to expand...

So recall, MM, that any 3.5 meters' worth of He I, He II, Ne I, Ne II< or Ne III will attenuate 17nm VUV. So will any 0.5m column of any metal whatsoever in the neutral or first few ionized states.

So you are claiming that in the 3000+ km layer between us and your "metal surface", there cannot possibly be even 0.01% of neutral material, nor single- or double-ions of any sort?
 
ben m said:
So recall, MM, that any 3.5 meters' worth of He I, He II, Ne I, Ne II< or Ne III will attenuate 17nm VUV. So will any 0.5m column of any metal whatsoever in the neutral or first few ionized states.

So you are claiming that in the 3000+ km layer between us and your "metal surface", there cannot possibly be even 0.01% of neutral material, nor single- or double-ions of any sort?
Click to expand...

Well, your He claims defy even LMSAL's positioning of the transition region in the upper chomosphere and all the SDO images posted to date.
 
sol invictus said:
Therefore, for one photon to make it through a 1km thickness of Mozina plasma, we'd need about 10^124 photons to be emitted by the source. Each photon carries 10^-17J of energy. So that's 10^107J of energy emitted by the source, which is vastly more energy than there is in the entire observable universe. In other words it is impossible for even one photon of 171A radiation to propagate through 1km of the Mozina plasma, no matter what the source.
Click to expand...
The word "opaque" might not be such a stretch after all.
:D
 
Michael Mozina said:
Well, your He claims defy even LMSAL's positioning of the transition region in the upper chomosphere and all the SDO images posted to date.
Click to expand...


And your claims about running difference images defy LMSAL's clear and simple statement about the intent and meaning of those graphs. So shall we say LMSAL is acceptable as an authoritative source or not? :p

Oh, and how's that math coming along, you know, the math you're going to use to destroy mainstream solar theory now that you know the opacity issue is the Achilles heel? Seems you're letting these other folks do all the math, and there you are asking them to do even more. Here, just in case you forgot...

Michael Mozina said:
Now that I finally understand how to go about destroying mainstream theory, I'll start working on it. I think *THAT* little project might even motivate me to do a little math. :)
Click to expand...
 
ben m said:
So recall, MM, that any 3.5 meters' worth of He I, He II, Ne I, Ne II< or Ne III will attenuate 17nm VUV. So will any 0.5m column of any metal whatsoever in the neutral or first few ionized states.
Click to expand...

Actually Ben, the more I think about it, the less I believe that 171A interacts with any of those ions. Where can I go to get verified evidence of your claim?
 
Michael Mozina said:
Where can I find an absorption spectrum for neon or helium that shows either element absorbs 171A?
Click to expand...

http://www.pa.uky.edu/~verner/photo.html

... but a moment ago you were telling us that your model predicts 99.9999% perfect ionization of everything? Does it or doesn't it? (Let me guess the answer: "Whatever it needs to be so that I don't have to discard my iron surface interpretations.")
 
Last edited:
Since the solar wind is composed of H, He+2 and He+1 in that order, if what you claimed was true, we would never see any iron lines.
 
Can you be a bit more specific Ben? That link does not even seem to even apply to the plasmas in question as far as I can tell.
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
Since the solar wind is composed of H, He+2 and He+1 in that order, if what you claimed was true, we would never see any iron lines.
Click to expand...

The solar wind is also very, very low-density. Notice that Sol's opacity calculation takes the product of (a) a cross section and (b) a "column density" (density x thickness). Go ahead and plug the measured solar wind density and thickness into Sol's calculations---that will tell you whether or not the solar wind is opaque to VUV. (It isn't, because the density is so low.)

For the cross sections: Photon-atom interactions work the same way in a plasma as they do anywhere else (at least for wavelengths shorter than the Debye length, which is ~1 um). Click on the very first link (to a postscript file of the Verner et. al. paper) for the cross sections. Note that this paper is specifically written by a plasma astrophysicist.

If you don't understand why photoionization is a continuum process: a bound atomic electron must have one out of a list of discrete energies. You're used to the idea (I hope) that a photon is absorbed must make an electron jump from allowed energy E1 to allowed energy E2, and the photon that does this must have E = E2-E1. Good? Well, what's the list of allowed energies of a free electron---the electron that pops out when you photoionize an atom? It can have energy whatsoever. So the photon that kicks you from E1 to (free) E2 has E = E2-E1, but since E2 is now a continuum E is also a continuum.
 
ben m said:
If you don't understand why photoionization is a continuum process: a bound atomic electron must have one out of a list of discrete energies. You're used to the idea (I hope) that a photon is absorbed must make an electron jump from allowed energy E1 to allowed energy E2, and the photon that does this must have E = E2-E1. Good?
Click to expand...

Ok.

Well, what's the list of allowed energies of a free electron---the electron that pops out when you photoionize an atom?
Click to expand...

Um, nothing "pops out" because nothing "went in" to begin with. Neither Helium nor Neon has a valance transfer that can use that specific amount of energy.

It can have energy whatsoever. So the photon that kicks you from E1 to (free) E2 has E = E2-E1, but since E2 is now a continuum E is also a continuum.
Click to expand...

No. Any emissions by the atom takes place in discrete units too. The wavelength is related to those valance shell transitions. The term "continuum" as you are using it is a pure ruse and has nothing to do with how atoms emit photons. The atoms emit photons in discrete wavelengths and absorb in discrete wavelengths and that is how we identify various elements in spectrometry.
 
Michael Mozina said:
Um, nothing "pops out" because nothing "went in" to begin with. Neither Helium nor Neon has a valance transfer that can use that specific amount of energy.
Click to expand...

So, MM, what photon energy do you think can ionize neon? Or do you deny that photons can ionize atoms at all?

What photon energy gets you from "neutral neon" to "Ne+ ion and a 10.0001 eV electron"? What photon energy gets you from "neutral neon" to "Ne+ ion and a 10.0002 eV electron"? Seriously, MM, it sounds more like you've misunderstood the basic role of atomic energy levels. This is sophomore-level stuff and you should go back to the woodshed until you understand it.

But I don't care if you understand why it works. Look at the data; go poke around the NIST webpage; go to Hamamatsu and tell them you want to buy a VUV lamp to use in a neon atmosphere and see whether they laugh at you. Is everybody in the photoionization business a fraud? Did they all make up fake continuum-absorption data?
 
Michael Mozina said:
No. Any emissions by the atom takes place in discrete units too. The wavelength is related to those valance shell transitions. The term "continuum" as you are using it is a pure ruse and has nothing to do with how atoms emit photons. The atoms emit photons in discrete wavelengths and absorb in discrete wavelengths and that is how we identify various elements in spectrometry.
Click to expand...

This isn't emission, it's absorption. And it doesn't take place between two bound states, it takes place between a bound state and an unbound state.
 
Michael Mozina said:
Sol, Ben is simply wrong. Period. Please continue.
Click to expand...

No, Michael. Ben is right, you are wrong. Transitions are only discrete between bound states. Bound state to free state transitions (and vice versa) are not discrete, because free states are not discrete. Have you ever taken a quantum mechanics class, Michael? This is basic stuff, and you are failing it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom