Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

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sol invictus said:
Michael?

I'm asking you for one number, a number that you must have immediately available if not in your head.
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Well, since you clearly have time to respond at length to other posts, I can only conclude one thing - you don't know the answer.

Of course all the rest of us do, and it proves your entire idea is nonsense. But never mind that, never mind what the actual answer is. What's actually even more damning is that you don't have an answer ready. You either don't understand the question or haven't thought about it - and that proves that you've entirely wasted the last 5(?) years you've spent thinking about this, because that's the very first question you should have asked. Without answering that, all your interpretations of these images (RD or not) are meaningless.

This alone proves you're a crank, Michael, and not a very bright one.
 
tusenfem said:
So, it apparently serves many purposes, first it is supposed to be Saturn's rings and then suddenly come a "ring around the sun" creating zodiacal light. Anyway, in this whole study note that the matter is radiant, i.e. it produces its own light, which is clearly not what the rings of Saturn and zodiacal light are doing.
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CHAPTER VI.
ON POSSIBLE ELECTRIC PHENOMENA IN SOLAR SYSTEMS AND NEBULAE.
128. The Sun. The series of experiments that I have made with a magnetic globe as cathode in large vacuum-box, for the purpose of studying analogies to the zodiacal light and Saturn's ring, have led to discoveries that appear to be of great importance for the solar theory.
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Evidently so. :)
 
Myriad said:
I look forward to your paper showing the results of quantitative measurements of the angular velocity of the surface features you claim to be observing with this imaging method, versus solar latitude.

If and when you can show measurements consistent with a rigid sphere with a solid surface, that can withstand scrutiny of the methodology and quantitative analysis used, you'll have a case to offer.
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Thanks for the input. I agree with you it must stand scrutiny and it should be done professionally.

Until then, I have a different explanation to offer for the persistence of local features on or near the sun's surface for periods of hours to days: sheer scale. The scale of features in the images you post is not always clear from the images themselves (I'm sure it was clear in context in the original sources) but at least some of them (in which the arc of the limb is apparent) are on the order of the diameter of the earth, and larger. So for instance if a feature is 10,000 kilometers across, lateral fluid movement at velocities on the order of 2,000 kilometers per hour would take at least 5 hours to erase it, even in the absence of such structurally persistent fluid processes as vorticity or convection cells.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Well, that's certainly "plausible" at first glance, but there are actually obvious fluid-like movements present in the image during that timeline that relate to plasma, and there are persistent features that cannot be plasma. If they related to plasma they would also show some movement that was consistent with the timelines, and consistent with the circumstances (CME in the RD image, tsunami in the doppler image). It's also important to look at what's happening in the original images. The "flares" DVD from the LMSAL website has the original video from that RD timeframe by the way. You can see all sorts of movements of plasma in the original images. You can even see movements of the "dust" in the plasma wind in the RD images too right after the CME. In the RD image we're actually watching a CME event in action. It would be like watching a bomb go off in the Earth's atmosphere. If that was "gaseous/plasma", we would expect to see all sorts of changes in the timelines involved and on every scale imaginable considering this is all supposed to be "thin plasma". We can actually see pieces of the surface carried away into the atmosphere and float from the bottom right toward the upper left of the image. That shows us the movement of "plasma" during that timeline too because whatever that clump might be, it's clearly drifting around in a "wind" until it falls back to the surface, quite some distance away.

In the doppler image we can certainly see the changes to the surface of the photosphere over time. The wave passes over the structures under the wave. The surface of the photosphere is also changing and causing all sorts of surface changes. What isn't changing is underneath the photosphere, and it's highly angular as well. Plasmas don't tend to hold such shapes over those lifetimes, certainly not the surface of the photosphere where the "structures" tend to come and go in about 8 minutes or so. The timelines here are just too long, and the circumstances simply too dynamic for those features to be created by "light whispy plasma", or due to scaling aspects of the image itself. The other dynamic changes in the images show that most of features are changing over time but the rigid parts are not changing on the same timelines as would be typical of a light plasma in those conditions.
 
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Ziggurat said:
So heavy ions are present in the solar wind...
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Some heavy elements sure, but the lightest, most positively charged ions most easily escape the gravity of the sun. The charge of the particle is also highly important which is why we find H+, He+2, and He+1 are the three most abundant elements in the solar wind in exactly that order.

but not in the corona or photosphere.
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Where did you get that idea? I assume in an environment that dynamic that "stuff" is pretty much flying around everywhere, falling back again as 'coronal rain". In no way is the atmosphere completely mass separated by elements, but there is a "tendency" for various plasmas to separate over time and the sun does have various "layers" that are "mostly" one element with "stuff" constantly flying through it.

That's a neat "mass separation" trick you've got there, Michael. Sounds like you're either proposing teleportation, or you just contradicted yourself.
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It think your model is absolutely "magical" in that it keeps mixing iron with hydrogen and keeping them together everywhere all the time.
 
Michael Mozina said:
You're a liar and deceiver. You have no interest in truth, and you're nothing but a two bit punk. You're the only fraud around here.
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Copied for the record.

How are you coming along on Reality Check's list of questions? When do you figure to explain every last pixel in those running difference images you post at the top of your web site, you know, the ones that I have picked apart and explained right down to every last pixel but in all the years you've been touting your crackpot notions on the 'net, you have never ventured to explain in detail? And how thick is the photosphere? Where does it become opaque? And what is the density of your solid surface? And will you please explain, quantitatively, the thermal characteristics of that imaginary surface? And how is it that thermal data can be collected from the corona of the Sun and somehow be magically changed into a picture of mountains and valleys several thousand kilometers below the photosphere? And what is it about that mythical surface that allows plasma to cruise through it in every direction at over a thousand meters per second?

Whassa matter, Michael? Too many questions you can't answer? Maybe it would be easier to just admit that you don't know. :p
 
Michael Mozina said:
Where did you get that idea? I assume in an environment that dynamic that "stuff" is pretty much flying around everywhere, falling back again as 'coronal rain". In no way is the atmosphere completely mass separated by elements, but there is a "tendency" for various plasmas to separate over time and the sun does have various "layers" that are "mostly" one element with "stuff" constantly flying through it.
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But not mass separated right down to the isotope with the iron at the core, like that other crackpot Oliver Manuel would have us believe. Oh by the way, who were the other people who put their names on that paper that Manuel wrote about that completely ludicrous idea? :D
 
GeeMack said:
Those graphs that show mass moving at somewhere in the neighborhood of 1300 meters per second directly through your mythical solid surface?
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Nothing shows that. You made that up in your head.

What happens at .995R? Well according to the article the plasma flow changes from a generally vertical to a generally horizontal direction.
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And why would it do that?

There is nothing at all that indicates the plasma stops moving.
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Why would you even expect that? Does the air stop moving at some point in the atmosphere or just go horizontal at that location?
 
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Michael Mozina said:
Too many to do all at once, that's for sure. :)
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All at once? You've had way over 5 years to work on them. And not one single quantitative answer yet. Darn the luck. If only there was someone who actually knows a little something about solar physics willing to help you out. I have the expertise in the graphics and imagery area, and you have none. You can't say I haven't offered to help there.
 
sol invictus said:
Well, since you clearly have time to respond at length to other posts, I can only conclude one thing - you don't know the answer.

Of course all the rest of us do, and it proves your entire idea is nonsense. But never mind that, never mind what the actual answer is. What's actually even more damning is that you don't have an answer ready. You either don't understand the question or haven't thought about it - and that proves that you've entirely wasted the last 5(?) years you've spent thinking about this, because that's the very first question you should have asked. Without answering that, all your interpretations of these images (RD or not) are meaningless.

This alone proves you're a crank, Michael, and not a very bright one.
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You guys spend an inordinate amount of time and effort bashing individuals and ignoring the data you wish to ignore while handing out "math chores" of your personal choice. It's more than a little frustrating that you ignore the images and the data on the website and fixate on a single issue that *YOU* claim is important.

The whispy thin photosphere is incapable of blocking all light everywhere, all the time. It's not a magic little layer of SPF infinity. There's no physically viable way for that thin layer of plasma to block light on every single wavelength in the first meter of the layer. You created a myth and you expect me to "jump" every time you hand me a math assignment.

FYI, I've been "thinking" about it for a long time. I've spent some time playing with various models too, but there are so many unknowns, and so many places where I simply have to "guess", I might as well be pulling numbers out of thin air. Since I don't find them particularly convincing, I doubt you or anyone else would either. Frankly it's not even necessary or relevant due to the plethora of other data sources to be considered.

There are *TONS* of visual pieces of evidence that demonstrate that the coronal loops come up and through the photosphere, starting with that white light image that you folks keep ignoring every single day of the year in favor of some math assignment MM has to personally do for you, lest I be badgered and hounded and personally attacked.

15%20April%202001%20WL.gif

mossyohkoh.jpg


Why does the photosphere light up around the loops and why does TRACE see further into the atmosphere than the Yohkoh? How about that Hinode video I posted for Brantc? How come the outlines of the coronal loops line up with the penumbral filaments of the sunspot?

There are so many ways to visually demonstrate this point it's hard to know where to start, and which images to focus on first. Why fixate on one thing (on your Michael do this for me list) and ignore all the rest of the data?
 
phunk said:
The vertical flow is caused by convection. When it gets to the surface, it can't flow vertically anymore, and it spreads horizontally, cools, and sinks again.
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Sure, and we see evidence of that process in sunspot activity with material flowing up and back into the photosphere. How does that explain the RD image or the Doppler image, or the heliosiesmology data?
 
Michael Mozina said:
Some heavy elements sure
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We only need some to get iron emissions from the corona.

Where did you get that idea?
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From you. You are denying that the iron emissions can come from the corona. But the only reason that wouldn't be possible is if there wasn't any iron in the corona.

In no way is the atmosphere completely mass separated by elements, ...
It think your model is absolutely "magical" in that it keeps mixing iron with hydrogen and keeping them together everywhere all the time.
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You have beclowned yourself yet again with your own contradictions. Either there is iron in the corona and it can emit light, or there is no iron in the corona so it can't. Which is it, Michael?
 
Ziggurat said:
We only need some to get iron emissions from the corona.
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We see those emissions in coronal loops too. The higher energy wavelengths however are concentrated inside those loops, and the loops are the primary light source of these specific wavelengths.

From you. You are denying that the iron emissions can come from the corona.
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No I'm not. In fact I'm saying they *DO* come from the corona, the chromosphere, the photosphere and further (deeper) into the atmosphere than you do. The coronal loops certainly can and do rise into the corona IMO.

But the only reason that wouldn't be possible is if there wasn't any iron in the corona.
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I'm not suggesting that the corona is special. It's just one layer of the atmosphere that the loops pass through. Of course we observe emissions along the loop, and into the corona. We also observe the loop under the photosphere as well.

You have beclowned yourself yet again with your own contradictions. Either there is iron in the corona and it can emit light, or there is no iron in the corona so it can't. Which is it, Michael?
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You evidently don't understand what I'm saying because I have never claimed that no 171A light comes from the corona. That's your own misconception of my idea, not my idea.
 
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