Iraq WMD Info

[Ion]

...
Perhaps you should read it again, especially this part...

I think that you should re-read that part and pit it against discoveries.

So that you don't 'justify' a fabricated war.

Then come back here.

To finally talk with some sense.

 

[dsm]

If the "he" you refer to is Saddam Hussein, I fully agree with the rolling eyes.

To paraphrase Daffy Duck, "(I see you have) pronoun trouble!"

I am equally impressed by your analysis of the speech as I am of your reference to Dr. Chinese .

Just as I was equally impressed by your reference to the speech in the first place.

Perhaps you should read it again, especially this part:

Bush is evil

Check the reference in your signature again and then you might realize that Buckley makes absolutely no point!

 

[peptoabysmal]

Bush is evil

Check the reference in your signature again and then you might realize that Buckley makes absolutely no point!

Missed that too, eh?

George Bush could ease that problem for Dean by simply becoming evil. But that is not something Howard Dean can safely count upon.

 

[dsm]

Missed that too, eh?

Oh I saw it. That one statement at the end of the article was the strangest statement in the whole article as there was nothing else in the article from which to draw that conclusion -- he simply states it as if that makes it so. In other words, just because said by William F. Buckley (a man who once said he would only fly to speak engagements if they provided him with a plane that had "two right wings"), doesn't make it so.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Oh I saw it. That one statement at the end of the article was the strangest statement in the whole article as there was nothing else in the article from which to draw that conclusion -- he simply states it as if that makes it so. In other words, just because said by William F. Buckley (a man who once said he would only fly to speak engagements if they provided him with a plane that had "two right wings"), doesn't make it so.

What Buckley is saying is that when push comes to shove, Dean is going to come off as being hateful and crazy in the eyes of most voters. He's painted himself into a corner where he can continue his present course and probably lose, like most anti-war candidates fighting an incumbent during wartime have; or he can make an about-face by becoming more moderate and trying to focus on how bad the recovering economy is and lose the voter base who got him the nomination. Either way, Dean is likely to lose.

That's the trouble with quoting Buckley, you end up having to 'splain it to yo homies.

 

[Ion]

What Buckley is saying is that when push comes to shove, Dean is going to come off as being hateful and crazy in the eyes of most voters.
...

Really?

And Bush who fabricated a war for oil, is not "...hateful and crazy..."?

Think WMDs in Iraq.

I think that voters should consider this foremost.

 

[dsm]

That's the trouble with quoting Buckley, you end up having to 'splain it to yo homies.

To quote another "well-known politician":

"Are you better off now then you were four years ago?"

 

[peptoabysmal]

Really?

And Bush who fabricated a war for oil, is not "...hateful and crazy..."?

Think WMDs in Iraq.

I think that voters should consider this foremost.

Dean's entire platform to date is "Bush is evil". It won't fly in a general election, there simply aren't enough left-wing crackpots in the general populace. Dean will have to work out another strategy.

The Democrats are living on Fantasy Island and all they keep saying is "The Plan! The Plan, Boss, The Plan!" Exactly where is this enlightened plan that is going to get us out of Iraq, straighten out the world's economy, make the French love us again and save the baby whales?

Could this be part of the "plan"?
With Dean in command, U.S. soldiers would be left high and dry

So what would you have us do, go back to the "plan" that failed so miserably for so many years and eventually allowed the US to be attacked on it's own soil?

Think Twin Towers ... again.

 

[Ion]

Dean's entire platform to date is "Bush is evil". It won't fly in a general election, there simply aren't enough left-wing crackpots in the general populace. Dean will have to work out another strategy.
...

Dean has a well-rounded strategy.

Based on healthcare coverage (like when he was in Vermont), jobs, no unnecessary wars like in Iraq, and no involvement of religion in politics.

He might run with general Clark as Vice-President, I don't know...

As for the Twin Towers, he might have implemented earlier Clinton's plan that Bush implemented too late, after September 11.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Dean has a well-rounded strategy.

Based on healthcare coverage (like when he was in Vermont), jobs, no unnecessary wars like in Iraq, and no involvement of religion in politics.

He might run with general Clark as Vice-President, I don't know...

As for the Twin Towers, he might have implemented earlier Clinton's plan that Bush implemented too late, after September 11.

You realize that his "universal" health care proposal only applies to persons with incomes lower than $16,613 per year? It doesn't get any more "universal" than that . He intends to pay for this program by repealing the Bush tax cuts.

His plan for jobs is to enact major federal legislation designed to protect labor unions.

There should be meaningful financial penalties available to federal regulators when an employer fails to negotiate in good faith with a union.

WTF is "good faith" and how do you define it in legal terms? Didn't give them everything they wanted? Well, you're in violation of the federal "good faith" laws.

My opposition to the war, however, is part of a comprehensive view of America’s role in the world that I presented to the Council on Foreign Relations on June 25th (click here for full text). In that speech, I laid out four goals for American leadership in the world:

First, defeat the threat posed by terrorists, tyrants, and technologies of mass destruction.
Second, strengthen our alliances and ensure Russia and China are fully integrated into a stable international order.
Third, enlarge the circle of beneficiaries of the growing world economy.
And fourth, ensure that life on our fragile planet is sustainable.

He won't be able to achieve #1, will he? Get real...

#2 Kiss up to Russia and China? That should make our European allies feel real comfortable.

#3 Outsource more jobs overseas? Damn, I wish I'd thought of that.

#4 I think he gets foreign policy and ecology a bit mixed up, unless of course, he has plans to sign the Kyoto Treaty.

As for the Twin Towers, he might have implemented earlier Clinton's plan that Bush implemented too late, after September 11.

Which plan was that? The one where Clinton let Osama Bin Laden go free?

(The other quotes are off of
Howard Dean's Campaign Site)

 

[Jocko]

To quote another "well-known politician":

"Are you better off now then you were four years ago?"

I might've been if someone didn't pooh-pooh Osama bin Laden on a platter... twice, IIRC.

 

[Ion]

You realize that his "universal" health care proposal only applies to persons with incomes lower than $16,613 per year? It doesn't get any more "universal" than that . He intends to pay for this program by repealing the Bush tax cuts.

His plan for jobs is to enact major federal legislation designed to protect labor unions.
...
Which plan was that? The one where Clinton let Osama Bin Laden go free?
...

Most of my knowledge of Dean comes from his success in Vermont, and from his current stated positions on issues.

So I assume a lot.

Without knowing what he could do.

I notice that he is a brainy calculator of things:

.) he became endorsed by two unions;

.) he became endorsed by Gore;

(and he calculated this since the start of the race for Democrat nomination -unlike the other Democrats- by phoning Gore for advices)

.) he calculated from the beginning that the war in Iraq is a waste and it is wrong;

.) he tried to reach out to Southern racist rednecks.

As for Clinton's plan against terrorism that Bush delayed to implement and finally implemented after 2001, it is about a plan that Clinton drew and handed personally to Bush.

Now it is enacted as HomeSomething Security, and is headed by someone named Tom Ridge.

If Dean would have implemented this quicker than Bush, or if Dean would have a better idea about this security thing than Bush does, I don't know it.

I assume that Dean would do better than Bush, because everything under Bush (economy, war, security, diplomacy) goes awry, it cannot get much worse, and Dean appears to be pretty intelligent in contrast.

 

[peptoabysmal]

.) he became endorsed by two unions;

Dean has a history of campaign contributions from labor unions, some of which are no more than organized crime and now he wants to enact laws to provide protectionism for labor unions. No big shocker, he's another Gray Davis.

.) he became endorsed by Gore;

(and he calculated this since the start of the race for Democrat nomination -unlike the other Democrats- by phoning Gore for advices)

Here's a replay of the phone conversation:
Howie: Hello, Al?
Al:Yes?
Howie: Al, I hate Bush too. I'm not just talkin' politics here, I really, really hate Dubya.
Al: My man! Keepin' it real! I'll get my homeys and we'll go do some drive-bys on the G-O-P and get gone before the pO-lice show up.
Howie: Thanks, Al.
Al: Just be sure and mention that I won the popular vote, O.K.?
Howie: You got it!

.) he calculated from the beginning that the war in Iraq is a waste and it is wrong;

And Dean is wrong. Dean himself has a lot of tough talk about protecting the US and the world from terrorists. How does he propose to accomplish these goals? Close his eyes and wish really, really hard?

.) he tried to reach out to Southern racist rednecks.

And it cost him a lot, politically. Dean is a strange mix of pro-abortion and pro-gun. Can you say faux-pas?

As for Clinton's plan against terrorism that Bush delayed to implement and finally implemented after 2001, it is about a plan that Clinton drew and handed personally to Bush.

What color of crayons did Bill use? I have seen six year olds who can draw a better plan.

Now it is enacted as HomeSomething Security, and is headed by someone named Tom Ridge.
If Dean would have implemented this quicker than Bush, or if Dean would have a better idea about this security thing than Bush does, I don't know it.

I have a feeling that either one would have had to do the same exact thing under the circumstances.

I assume that Dean would do better than Bush, because everything under Bush (economy, war, security, diplomacy) goes awry, it cannot get much worse, and Dean appears to be pretty intelligent in contrast.

In case you haven't heard, the economy is recovering at a pretty good rate. Unless the economy makes a severe downturn during the election year, Dean will look like an idiot criticizing the economy. Dean will have to hammer on the national debt, which has been soaring since the Nixon days.

Bush led the US forces to win two wars in a very short time with a minimum of civilian casualties. Dean will have to concentrate on issues of "keeping the peace" in Afganistan and Iraq, rather than the war, unless Dean wishes to be made a fool out of. The Democrats blundered by playing the "where's the WMD?" card way too early ... nobody cares now. Getting rid of Saddam was a good idea, no matter how it got done. The end does justify the means, in politics anyway.

We haven't had one single attack on US soil since Homeland Security was put into place, not even another anthrax scare. Did those nasty terrorists decide to give us a break? Dean will have to concentrate on the perception of reduction of rights and personal freedoms in the US.

You want to see things get worse? Become one of the "Howard Empowered" and elect Dean.