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Iran's hanging binge

Virus said:
Weren't we discussing executions per capita and not absolute numbers? The Bahamas executes the most per capita. Followed by Singapore. Yes Iran also executes more per capita than China.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_exe_percap-crime-executions-per-capita
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The "per capita" numbers given in that table are incorrect. See my post #22, gumboot's post #32 and my post #40. The per capita number for China should be more like 0.4 instead of 0.8; that for Iran more like 4 instead of 0.9. So you better first redo the "per capita" table before making snarky remarks.

The absolute numbers correspond to those in an Amnesty report, but most of those numbers are (gross) underestimates.
 
Thunder said:
as far as executions per capita goes, Iran is number 12.

:)

kinda makes the OP a little silly.
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For the fifth time:

The per capita numbers in that table are wrong!!!

1) they don't match up with the absolute numbers
2) the absolute numbers are mostly underestimates - only for a couple of countries like the US and Japan they are accurate, other countries however are not so transparent to report the number of executions. In China it's even a state secret

And lastly

3) statistically it makes no sense to compare the underestimate of 200 or so for Iran with the 1 execution that happened to take place that year in the Bahamas.
 
ddt said:
For the fifth time:

The per capita numbers in that table are wrong!!!

1) they don't match up with the absolute numbers
2) the absolute numbers are mostly underestimates - only for a couple of countries like the US and Japan they are accurate, other countries however are not so transparent to report the number of executions. In China it's even a state secret
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prove it.

and yes, executions per capita does indeed have meaning.

NYC might have many more murders than small towns, but per capita our murder rate is low.
 
Thunder said:
prove it.
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:jaw-dropp
Read posts #22, #32, #40 and #44. Consult, say, wikipedia on the population numbers of Iran and China. Take a frigging calculator and do the math yourself. :mad:

Thunder said:
and yes, executions per capita does indeed have meaning.

NYC might have many more murders than small towns, but per capita our murder rate is low.
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Yes, executions per capita does have a meaning. Did I deny that?

But, to take your analogy of murder rates: say Smallville, inh. 2,000, has on average 1 murder every 5 year. Then it makes quite a difference whether you calculate the per capita murder rate in a year there happened to be a murder or in a year, or in a year without a murder. Capiche? That's one thing that's wrong with comparing the executions-per-capita in Iran and in the Bahamas for a single year.

The other thing is the uncertainty. The murder rates in Smallville, USA and in NYC are accurately known. The number of executions in Iran is not known, neither that in China. The number Amnesty knew of China in 2007 was "at least 470", but in reality it's more like a couple of thousands.
 
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ddt said:
For the fifth time:

The per capita numbers in that table are wrong!!!

1) they don't match up with the absolute numbers
2) the absolute numbers are mostly underestimates - only for a couple of countries like the US and Japan they are accurate, other countries however are not so transparent to report the number of executions. In China it's even a state secret

And lastly

3) statistically it makes no sense to compare the underestimate of 200 or so for Iran with the 1 execution that happened to take place that year in the Bahamas.
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Actually upon closer investigation I've made sense of the per capita discrepancy as well as the discrepant in our two interpretations of the year the data is from. The total execution data is from 2007 but the per capita data is from 1998. Why they used two different years, I don't know. It's a pretty bizarre site.
 
So...anyone else think an independent Kurdistan would be a good idea?
 
gumboot said:
Actually upon closer investigation I've made sense of the per capita discrepancy as well as the discrepant in our two interpretations of the year the data is from. The total execution data is from 2007 but the per capita data is from 1998. Why they used two different years, I don't know. It's a pretty bizarre site.
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Ah, I hadn't noticed the fine print below changed... that is indeed pretty bizarre. :eye-poppi How much trouble is it to calculate the per capita number from the absolute number?

And then, I don't think it makes much sense to take the data from a single year to get a serious impression, even if the numbers are accurate. The number of executions for the US vary between 30 and 60 per year, so by a factor 2. Accidentally hitting one of the extremes gives a whole other impression than the other. It would be much better to give a 5 or 10 year average.
 
ddt said:
Are you going to tell that to the Turks? ;)
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Or the Iranians or the Iraqis.

Seriously, who's opinion should be more important. The people being oppressed, or their oppressors?
 
I'd support an independent Kurdistan. If it operates on the democratic and pro-West
model of the Iraqi Kurds. Don't know how it's going to come about, but I'd love it if the Western media gave them as much attention as the Palestinians. They deserve the spotlight more than the Palestinians.
 
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Virus said:
but I'd love it if the Western media gave them as much attention as the Palestinians. They deserve the spotlight more than the Palestinians.
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and why is that?

has Palestine been at the center of inter-continental and inter-religious conflict, for thousands of years?

nope.
 
Mycroft said:
Or the Iranians or the Iraqis.

Seriously, who's opinion should be more important. The people being oppressed, or their oppressors?
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Well, sure, self-determination and all that - and I agree with that. However, and that was the gist of my comment, there are international political considerations that go against that idea. The Brits and French weren't very interested in fighting for an independent Kurdistan ca. 1920 against a reborn Turkey under Atatürk - and then there's that pesky thing of finding oil around Mosul at the same time. Likewise, now, would the US or its NATO allies go against NATO ally Turkey to fight for an independent Kurdistan? No chance in hell. Turkey is still an important ally, and that's why I only mentioned them.
 
Thunder said:
a good idea...for whom?

Israel was a great idea for the Jews, but not for the Middle East.
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You can say the same thing about Europe taking over the Americas. Good idea for Europeans running from religious persecution; bad idea for the Indigenous Natives.
 
USEagle13 said:
You can say the same thing about Europe taking over the Americas. Good idea for Europeans running from religious persecution; bad idea for the Indigenous Natives.
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the difference is that there are still Palestinians till this very day, who have the keys to their homes that they were forced from in Israel, and have been confiscated by Israel.
 
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