Iran to stone adulterer who confessed after torture.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

She is an alleged murderer.

She is alleged to be a murderer by a court that has a history of unreliability to put it lightly.

Contrast with the Mumia Abu Jamal case, wherein despite being in and out of court almost constantly for a quarter century, with huge amounts of media and celebrity attention, the one thing that has never been overturned or placed in doubt is that Jamal murdered Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner.

 

[Ladewig]

She is an alleged murderer.

No, she is not an alleged murderer. Both CNN and Newsweek have reported that while she charged with murdering her husband she was subsequently cleared of those charges.

On the other hand, your accusations have led me to investigate the incident in greater detail and I will agree with you that the description in the OP is so one-sided as to not be accurate.

During the 2006 investigation into her husband's death, she was interrogated and admitted to committing adultery. She now claims that the admission was made under duress and has subsequently denied the adultery charge. The court found her guilty of infidelity and sentenced her to 99 lashes. The sentence was carried out. After she was cleared of the murder charges, the judges reopened the adultery case.

Guardian

but the adultery charge was reviewed and a death penalty handed down on the basis of "judge's knowledge" – a loophole that allows for subjective judicial rulings where no conclusive evidence is present.

This judicial discretion is used in hodud (morality) crimes such as adultery. Another site, whose reliability I cannot determine claims that "Cases of adultery must be proven either by a repeated confession by the defendant or by the testimony of witnesses: four men or three men and two women." "Judge's knowledge" is the exception to that requirement.


In any case I consider the practice to be barbaric. The state did not meet the burden of evidence but the judge assigned a death penalty anyway.

 

[fuelair]

I think beheading with a sharp sword is less cruel than electric chair. It only LOOKS barbaric.

In US we have a bit of schizophrenia about methods of execution. There are MANY ways to kill someone instantly and painlessly -- most of them involve rapid obliteration of the brain. However they are also bloody and messy, and thus feel "uncivilized".

Lethal injection was invented to alleviate such feelings. But precisely because nothing dramatic happens, there is no way to tell whether convict is suffering or not. Hence court challenges to lethal injection on the grounds of "cruel and unusual punishment." Which it may well be.

Ironically, I know at least one method of execution which is totally painless and involves no messes. Breathing hypoxic air. Not poisonous gas of any kind, but plain pure nitrogen. You do not feel suffocating, and just breath normally until you pass out. Ten more minutes, and you will never wake up.

Unfotunately, the concept of "gas chamber" of any kind has been "Godwinized", so to speak...

Gooed one - -it was used (fictionally) to do a murder in one of a "Murder She Wrote" series of 5 or so eps in Ireland.

 

[Naddig74]

There's nothing much we can do. It's the more modern Muslims who need to do something.

We can march our massively powerful, well equipped, motivated, battle hardened, desert acclimatised, volunteer militaries in and remove the regime that carries out this kind of ****ed up ****.

it is not like we don't have men here in the western democracies that never would beat their wife....

I caught you're meaning DC. And they are ********* who deserve a hiding too.

My impression is that most Turks i know are not very religious anyway.
Even the Imam from Turkey i know isn't any thing close to a fundamentalist.

Turkey is a funny country. While 98% of the population are Muslim, the personality cult of Kemal Ataturk is a much stronger force. Turkey has a secular government as a result of his reforms and the vast majority of Turks want to keep it that way.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm not condoning this atrocity for a second, but .

At that point, you might have been better off to stop.

We can march our massively powerful, well equipped, motivated, battle hardened, desert acclimatised, volunteer militaries in and remove the regime that carries out this kind of ****ed up ****.

Why destroy them to save them?

This thread, thanks to the chosen OP, is an interesting variation on counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

 

[Naddig74]

Why destroy them to save them?

Don't need to kill everyone in the country...just the government and the soldiers who are daft enough not to surrender at the first sight of an M16 or SA80...

 

[I Ratant]

I think beheading with a sharp sword is less cruel than electric chair. It only LOOKS barbaric.

...

.
There's videos of these.
Some of the 'sawing off' style, not sharp swords or anything quick.
Common in the Stone Age countries, to have a relative of the victim take off the head with a pocket knife.
Guillontine story...
Buncha guys were to be beheaded, but as each one was placed in the apparatus and the blade released, it would jam part way down.
The intended victim was then released as "saved by divine intervention".
One of the intendeds was an engineer, and declared he'd be executed lying on his back, and was placed that way in the machine.
He said..."Wait a minute, I see your problem..".....

 

[I Ratant]

...
I do not even understand why people feel the need to compare this terrible practic of stoning to other forms of execution. A bunch of citizens throwing small stones at a helpless persons head until they die is not humane, it is death by torture. Period, end of story. Condemn the practice, because it deserves to be condemned and needs to end.

...

.
There's videos of that also.
It's a brutal barbaric and very lengthy community event.
Spreading the shame of the act through the community assists in getting the community to participate.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Don't need to kill everyone in the country...just the government and the soldiers who are daft enough not to surrender at the first sight of an M16 or SA80...

Sorry, the decapitation strike fantasy is just that, a fantasy. See the longevity of Saddam Hussein, who was a target of just such a thing. See also the time and effort chasing down the deck full of cards. See also Al Douri. Guess you won't, he's gone to ground, and remains so.

Your idea won't work.

 

[Naddig74]

Sorry, the decapitation strike fantasy is just that, a fantasy. See the longevity of Saddam Hussein, who was a target of just such a thing. See also the time and effort chasing down the deck full of cards. See also Al Douri. Guess you won't, he's gone to ground, and remains so.

Your idea won't work.

I don't believe I suggested a 'decapitation strike.' I suggested invasion.

So it'll take some time. There are still British and American soldiers in Germany, unless I'm much mistaken. Some of those buggers got away and never got caught, but they never got back into power either.

Surely you won't say we shouldn't have fought WWII? Germany and Japan are both safe, cooperative, productive democracies now, because we went and did the business and helped set the countries to rights after the fact. What kind of world might we live in if we'd left them to it?

War makes a big mess and it takes longer to clear up afterwards than it actually did to win the damn thing. Both our countries used to understand that and had the gumption to go through with it. What happened?

Understand, I'm not advocating invasion just on the basis of the treatment of this poor woman. Iran is a threat to world stability for more reasons than it's appalling human rights record.

 

[WildCat]

population are Muslim, the personality cult of Kemal Ataturk is a much stronger force. Turkey has a secular government as a result of his reforms and the vast majority of Turks want to keep it that way.

Are you sure Turkey still has a secular government? Erdogan seems to be heading the other direction.

 

[Naddig74]

Are you sure Turkey still has a secular government? Erdogan seems to be heading the other direction.

I've heard this and it worries me.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I don't believe I suggested a 'decapitation strike.' I suggested invasion.

You said this.

Don't need to kill everyone in the country...just the government and the soldiers who are daft enough not to surrender at the first sight of an M16 or SA80...

You wanted to cut off the head, leave the body.

In your own words.

I admit to having over simplified my response.

Now that you have elaborated on your desire to inflict democracy by the bayonet in Iran, I suggest that you are using a Rumsfeldian world view ___ which funnily enough also involved decapitation strike fantasies. Interesting correlation, that, but perhaps coincidental.

There is no point in Invading Iran, at all. There is no need to destroy the place to save it. Democracy works best when it grows from the ground up ... your impatience is no excuse for screwing up their process, however long it will take.

DR

 

[Naddig74]

Democracy works best when it grows from the ground up ... your impatience is no excuse for screwing up their process, however long it will take.

In an ideal world, sure let them work it out for themselves.

But we're talking about a country who's government has repeatedly voiced it's desires to destroy ours. They have carried out acts of war against your country (the embassy business) and mine (taking a boatful of Royal Marines and sailors hostage). They continue to develop nuclear weapons, with an implied intent to deploy them against us. They fund and supply terror groups to delay the transition to peace in Iraq, and to create misery and fear elsewhere in the world. They brutalise and opress their own people.

I prefer Napieran to Rumsfeldian, doncherknow.

 

[I Ratant]

I don't believe I suggested a 'decapitation strike.' I suggested invasion.

So it'll take some time. There are still British and American soldiers in Germany, unless I'm much mistaken. Some of those buggers got away and never got caught, but they never got back into power either.

Surely you won't say we shouldn't have fought WWII? ...

.
Germany was in essence repatriated into the human community in less than 5 years after the war, as was Japan.
The occupation forces from the Allied countries had their families with them!
I was there from 1950 to 1953, without perceiving any hostility from the Germans, moving around the area without even any warnings of hostile intent from anyone!
My sister went to a German high school for 2 years!
The formal occupation ended sometime in 1951, and the troops then in-country became co-belligerents with the reemergent German military against the common enemy, Soviet Russia.
And they've been that way ever since.
OTOH, in Iraq, which we invaded 7 years ago, it's unsafe to be an Iraqi, much less an infidel foreigner, and NO ONE of the occupying services have their family living there!
It's certainly nice to sit on the couch and muse about "surgical strikes" on the leadership and the welcoming of the invaders as saviors, but the past 7 years should have shown the naivety of that childish notion!

 

[Naddig74]

.
Germany was in essence repatriated into the human community in less than 5 years after the war, as was Japan.
The occupation forces from the Allied countries had their families with them!
I was there from 1950 to 1953, without perceiving any hostility from the Germans, moving around the area without even any warnings of hostile intent from anyone!
My sister went to a German high school for 2 years!
The formal occupation ended sometime in 1951, and the troops then in-country became co-belligerents with the reemergent German military against the common enemy, Soviet Russia.
And they've been that way ever since.
OTOH, in Iraq, which we invaded 7 years ago, it's unsafe to be an Iraqi, much less an infidel foreigner, and NO ONE of the occupying services have their family living there!
It's certainly nice to sit on the couch and muse about "surgical strikes" on the leadership and the welcoming of the invaders as saviors, but the past 7 years should have shown the naivety of that childish notion!

These are very strong points. However, the Germans and Japanese are very different peoples to Iraqis or Iranians.

Regardless of the difficulties, can we afford to sit and wait for Iran to democratise itself? Does anyone really believe that a medieval theocracy will do so voluntarily, or before they nuke Israel?

 

[Rolfe]

At that point, you might have been better off to stop.

You don't like being reminded that people looking at the USA from outside might have similar feelings to your feelings on looking at Iran from outside?

Oh, but I forgot. It's always completely different and not the same thing at all when America does it. That makes it completely OK.

Rolfe.

 

[Darth Rotor]

You don't like being reminded that people looking at the USA from outside might have similar feelings to your feelings on looking at Iran from outside?

Rolfe, the USA has bloody eff all to do with why I tweaked your nose.
You utterly missed the point.

I'm not condoning this atrocity for a second, but ...

That construction is a flag that you are about to excuse something.

Put another way, you might have been better off to make your point or observation, and not bother leading with the quote there ...

 

[Darth Rotor]

In an ideal world, sure let them work it out for themselves.

Not quite my idea. In the real world, work toward weakening the regime ... and let its own inertia topple it. Same idea, albeit different discrete means, than what got the wall to come down ... we were in that together, yes?

But we're talking about a country who's government has repeatedly voiced it's desires to destroy ours.

Who is "us" in this case?

They have carried out acts of war against your country (the embassy business) and mine (taking a boatful of Royal Marines and sailors hostage).

AH, our elder cousins across the pond. And Kruschev insisted that he'd bury us ...

They continue to develop nuclear weapons, with an implied intent to deploy them against us.

Really? My guess is they intend to use Nukes as a deterrent. In their place, I'd probably do likewise, if I thought I could pull it off.

They fund and supply terror groups to delay the transition to peace in Iraq, and to create misery and fear elsewhere in the world.

Indeed. Part of why we don't get along so good. Sad, as we had some working relationships going early on in Afghanistan after Anaconda ...

They brutalise and opress their own people.

That's irrelevant. So do the Chinese. That don't get out bayonets into Beijing. So have a variety of despots, tin pot banana republic tyrants, sheiks, and Kings the world over.

I prefer Napieran to Rumsfeldian, doncherknow.

Hmmm, I'll take a sip of the bourbon and reconsider.

DR

 

[rwguinn]

Rolfe, the USA has bloody eff all to do with why I tweaked your nose.
You utterly missed the point.

That construction is a flag that you are about to excuse something.

Put another way, you might have been better off to make your point or observation, and not bother leading with the quote there ...

"The correct punctuation for a sentence that begins 'It's none of my business, but... is to place a period after the 'but'. Do not use excessive force providing this punctuation. It will get you talked about" R. A. Heinlein
(close--paraphrased)