Iran... the bomb... preemptive strikes...

[WildCat]

ok, fine.

I shall ammend my post.

what I should have said is "he who fires the first shot OR invades another country, starts the war".

happy now? satisfied? content?

thought not.

Then the US started the war with Japan, yes?

Even by your new (move that goalpost Thunder ) definition.

It's common sense.

 

[Thunder]

Then the US started the war with Japan, yes?
.

dude, why do you always have to derail threads like this?

 

[WildCat]

dude, why do you always have to derail threads like this?

It's not a derail. You brought up a "common sense" definition of who gets the blame for starting a war. By your "common sense" definition the US started the war with Japan about an hour before any Japanese airplanes reached Pearl Harbor, before they even reached Hawaii.

Are you standing by your "common sense" definition of who started a war?

 

[WildCat]

On an ocean bottom littered with military debris, researchers from the University of Hawai'i yesterday discovered what is believed to be the first casualty of the Dec. 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor.

The finding of the Japanese two-man submarine is significant because it confirms accounts by the crew on the destroyer USS Ward that the first shots fired on that day of infamy were from American guns, not the Japanese.

A little more than an hour before Japanese bombers attacked Pearl Harbor, the Ward fired on a submarine while patrolling just outside the harbor. Crewmembers believed they had sunk a Japanese "midget" submarine, but until yesterday, their story had gone unconfirmed.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2002/Aug/29/ln/ln03a.html

And thus began the US war of aggression against the Empire of Japan!

 

[WildCat]

Wait, let me guess.. this "common sense" definition applies only to Israel, to which we must apply a double higher standard!

 

[Thunder]

"the Ward fired on a submarine while patrolling just outside the harbor."

oh look, a Japanese submarine within American territorial waters. we shot it, as an act of self-defense.

they invaded our territory. they started the conflict.



.....err...umm..did the Israelis wait for the Arabs to encroach upon their sovereign territory, before they fired a shot? no...they did not. which is why the Israelis started the 1967 War, and Japan started the US-Japan conflict of WW2.

....like I said before, one stupid ass question.

 

[WildCat]

"the Ward fired on a submarine while patrolling just outside the harbor."

oh look, a Japanese submarine within American territorial waters. we shot it, as an act of self-defense.

they invaded our territory. they started the conflict.

Common sesnse says the US fired the first shots, therefore they started the war.

It's common sense.

Or are you claiming a midget submarine with a 2-man crew was a threat to invade Hawaii?

I'm sure they were lost on a training excercise. The Ward didn't even give them a chance to be escorted away. No wonder they attacked an hour later!

 

[Thunder]

I'm sure they were lost on a training excercise. The Ward didn't even give them a chance to be escorted away. No wonder they attacked an hour later!

let us know when you are done with the childishness, and want to have an actual debate.

you know what? forget it. its just not worth it.

back to ignore you go. see ya.

 

[WildCat]

let us know when you are done with the childishness, and want to have an actual debate.

you know what? forget it. its just not worth it.

back to ignore you go. see ya.

So soon? There's more!

After several attacks on Israel, attributed to the Palestinian fedayeen group Fatah, that left dozens killed or injured, including a mine explosion that resulted in three fatalities, Israel attacked the city of as-Samu in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank.[12] Jordanian units sent to engage the Israelis were quickly beaten back. [13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_war

Uh-oh, Israel didn't even fire the first shots in 1967! The Jordan-backed fedayeen did far more damage than the Japanes mini-sub, which was violently attacked even though it hadn't fired a shot and was no threat to Hawaii's existence.

 

[Virus]

1967: Egypt closed the straits of Tiran. Ejected the UN peacekeepers from the Sinai, massed troops on the border, boasted of the immanent destruction of Israel and goaded the other Arab states to war.

Started it, got it, and ended up pwned. Sucks to be them.

 

[Chaos]

Common sesnse says the US fired the first shots, therefore they started the war.

It's common sense.

Or are you claiming a midget submarine with a 2-man crew was a threat to invade Hawaii?

I'm sure they were lost on a training excercise. The Ward didn't even give them a chance to be escorted away. No wonder they attacked an hour later!

Common sense says that a 2-man midget sub cannot get to Hawaii on its own.

Common sense says that you do not try to sneak a midget sub into another country´s naval bases unless it is to either sink something in there or to scout for an attack.

Common sense said, in those days, that a submerged submarine does not have friendly intentions.

 

[DC]

1967: Egypt closed the straits of Tiran. Ejected the UN peacekeepers from the Sinai, massed troops on the border, boasted of the immanent destruction of Israel and goaded the other Arab states to war.

Started it, got it, and ended up pwned. Sucks to be them.

was it not you that pointed out the lack of Democracy and freedom in those arab states? now you dont make any difference between the decisions of those Dictators and the people they dicdate,that suffer but have no say?

 

[Virus]

the "Global Terrorist Network", includes Al Qaeda.

and there is no evidence of Iran funding Al Qaeda. In fact, as Sunni Muslims, Al Qaeda hates Iran.

Al-Qaeda won't take money from people they hate? Iran fund the Taliban. The Taliban are Sunni, consider Shiites "sub-human" and are intimately linked with Al-Qaeda.

Al-Qaeda is also known to operate out of Iran. From General Petraeus's statement to the Senate's Armed Services Committee:

al-Qaeda continues to use Iran as a key facilitation hub, where facilitators connect al-Qaeda’s senior leadership to regional affiliates. And although Iranian authorities do periodically disrupt this network by detaining select al-Qaeda facilitators and operational planners, Tehran’s policy in this regard is often unpredictable.

http://armed-services.senate.gov/statemnt/2010/03 March/Petraeus 03-16-10.pdf

 

[DC]

what is General Petraeus's evidence for his claims?

 

[JihadJane]

On the other hand, those are the very best countries on which to rain bombs, and that's about the most important reason to do so.

Clausewitz: "War therefore is an act of violence to compel our opponent to fulfill our will."

How many children are you prepared to kill to fulfill your will?

Started it, got it, and ended up pwned. Sucks to be them.

Pathetic.

 

[WildCat]

Common sense says that a 2-man midget sub cannot get to Hawaii on its own.

Common sense says that you do not try to sneak a midget sub into another country´s naval bases unless it is to either sink something in there or to scout for an attack.

Common sense said, in those days, that a submerged submarine does not have friendly intentions.

None of that matters according to Thunder's "common sense" definition of who started a war.

The US fired the first shot, before Japan invaded any US territory. Therefore the US started the war with Japan in 1941.

It's common sense.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Wildcat, I was having a good reading until come across your posts which are off topic.

Why do you like to spread your clueless philosophy of deception every time Israel become part of the debate?

Your ranting remember me the little children trying to formulate excuses when caught doing something wrong...

 

[Chaos]

None of that matters according to Thunder's "common sense" definition of who started a war.

The US fired the first shot, before Japan invaded any US territory. Therefore the US started the war with Japan in 1941.

It's common sense.

Before you tell me anything about Thunder´s definitions, let´s hear it in his own words. Certainly if you know what his definition is, you can quote where shows it.

I´ve come to deeply distrust anyone´s defition of what someone else´s definition of anything is. Particularly right-wingers´ definitions of Thunder´s definition of anything.

 

[Virus]

Wildcat, I was having a good reading until come across your posts which are off topic.

Why do you like to spread your clueless philosophy of deception every time Israel become part of the debate?

Your ranting remember me the little children trying to formulate excuses when caught doing something wrong...

Not off-topic. The topic of a full-on war between Israel and Iran came up. I put forward the notion that Israel is the superior fighting force, giving their sweeping victory over three enemies at once during the 1967 war as evidence.

Thunder tried to mitigate the example by saying that Israel started it. Wouldn't matter to my point even if that were true but he said it anyway. In response to this, WildCat presented several facts and as a result, Thunder's argument was pwned like an Egyptian Air-force.

 

[Thunder]

Thunder's argument was pwned like an Egyptian Air-force.

spellcheck.