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Iran Nuclear Agreement

Swap out a few names and replace "great satan" with "Persian Hitlers" and you have a pretty accurate portrayal of American hardliners urging against the deal stateside..
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Yes, yes, yes, OF COURSE there is equivalency between those warning the POTUS not to trust the Iranians on a nuclear deal just because they're religious nuts who broke every agreement they signed before on the subject... and those who ask Ahmadejinad to not trust the Americans because Allah said that America is a the great Satan who must be destroyed by Jihad for opposing the will of Allah that the Shi'ites rule the world.

Just like there was an equivalency between people who told Chamberline not to trust Hitler's intentions in Munich because he is a liar who is sure to break any agreement... and those who advised Hitler to just use force immediately, since there is no point to a deal with the wily, perfidious Chamberline who opposes German greatness just because he is controlled by the evil Jewish bankers.

Just exchange a few lines and the criticism by both the Nazi and British hard-liners' in 1938 criticism looks the same!

It is one thing to be opposed to black-and-white thinking and notice shades of grey between countries. It is something else altogether to refuse to see any shades of grey, and consider all countries equally grey.
 
Skeptic said:
It is one thing to be opposed to black-and-white thinking and notice shades of grey between countries. It is something else altogether to refuse to see any shades of grey, and consider all countries equally grey.
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At least the Union were savvy enough to be non conformist, and wear blue, rather than any shade of gray. :D
DR
 
Skeptic said:
Yes, yes, yes, OF COURSE there is equivalency between those warning the POTUS not to trust the Iranians on a nuclear deal just because they're religious nuts who broke every agreement they signed before on the subject... and those who ask Ahmadejinad to not trust the Americans because Allah said that America is a the great Satan who must be destroyed by Jihad for opposing the will of Allah that the Shi'ites rule the world.

Just like there was an equivalency between people who told Chamberline not to trust Hitler's intentions in Munich because he is a liar who is sure to break any agreement... and those who advised Hitler to just use force immediately, since there is no point to a deal with the wily, perfidious Chamberline who opposes German greatness just because he is controlled by the evil Jewish bankers.

Just exchange a few lines and the criticism by both the Nazi and British hard-liners' in 1938 criticism looks the same!

It is one thing to be opposed to black-and-white thinking and notice shades of grey between countries. It is something else altogether to refuse to see any shades of grey, and consider all countries equally grey.
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StrawMan.jpg


The US has been playing the same non-starter game with Iran for 30 years. The rhetoric against Iran during that time has only been topped with two things: the Cold War rhetoric and the 9/11 rhetoric. That doesn't make the two countries the same, but the rhetoric tends to mirror each other quite often.
 
It doesn't make both countries the same, true. But the "sophisticated" folks always try to make the USA look as bad as possible, Iran & co. as good as possible, and to find as many similarities as possible between them.

This doesn't mean the two countries look the same even after all their efforts -- the difference in goodness (for lack of a better word) between the two countries seems to wide to be eliminated by such rhetorical tricks -- but if so, it's not for lack of trying.
 
GreNME said:
[qimg]http://image.grenme.com/thread/StrawMan.jpg[/qimg]

The US has been playing the same non-starter game with Iran for 30 years. The rhetoric against Iran during that time has only been topped with two things: the Cold War rhetoric and the 9/11 rhetoric. That doesn't make the two countries the same, but the rhetoric tends to mirror each other quite often.
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Three things, actually: You're forgetting that the US rhetoric against Iran has also been consistently topped by the Iranian rhetoric against the US.

There's also the small matter of Iran playing the same non-starter game with the rest of the world... but heaven forbid the US actually take that into consideration when making policy.
 
I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday and I am shocked shocked shocked Iran is backing out of the deal!
 
A new report is out following the last inspection of the site at Qum. I have found this bit to be interesting:
They confirmed American and European intelligence reports that the site was built to house about 3,000 centrifuges, enough to produce enough material for one or two nuclear weapons a year. But that is too small to be useful in the production of fuel for civilian nuclear power, which is what Iran insists was the intended purpose of the site.
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GreNME said:
[qimg]http://image.grenme.com/thread/StrawMan.jpg[/qimg]

The US has been playing the same non-starter game with Iran for 30 years. The rhetoric against Iran during that time has only been topped with two things: the Cold War rhetoric and the 9/11 rhetoric. That doesn't make the two countries the same, but the rhetoric tends to mirror each other quite often.
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That's a nice picture of a straw man, but unfortunately, it is not a propo.

Praktik said:
Swap out a few names and replace "great satan" with "Persian Hitlers" and you have a pretty accurate portrayal of American hardliners urging against the deal stateside..;)
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Skeptic said:
Yes, yes, yes, OF COURSE there is equivalency between those warning the POTUS not to trust the Iranians on a nuclear deal just because they're religious nuts who broke every agreement they signed before on the subject... and those who ask Ahmadejinad to not trust the Americans because Allah said that America is a the great Satan who must be destroyed by Jihad for opposing the will of Allah that the Shi'ites rule the world.
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I'm not sure where you see the scarecrow, frankly. Praktik clearly made an equivalency that Skeptic disagreed with. I'm not sure how else you can describe a statement such as "swap out a few names...and you have a pretty accurate portrayal..." as anything other than an equivalency.

Yes, the US has been playing the same "non-starter game" with Iran for 30 years. It might possibly be related to the fact that 30 years ago Iran committed an act that was a clear and brazen violation of international law and also happened to be a clear cassus belli. It also might be related to the fact that the official position of the government of Iran towards the United States of America throughout those 30 years can be reduced to their oft spouted (at least weekly) phrase "Death to America". And yet you claim that the rhetoric of the two sides "tend to mirror each other".

In the immortal words of Ice T: "what world do you live in"?


Iran's Ahmadinejad issues new threats against Israel, U.S
On the eve of his trip to New York City, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stood before a banner blaring "Death to America," showed off his military might and declared his extremist regime will not bow to Western pressure.
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'Death to America' Day: How Iran Trained Its Young to Protest
On Wednesday, Iran officially celebrated the 30th anniversary of the taking of the U.S. Embassy in central Tehran, a day formally designated as "Students' Day" in honor of the several university students killed during the course of the 1979 Revolution.
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From FARS (state run) news:
“Our people’s slogan of hatred, which is death to America, will continue to be heard,” added Khatami, a member of Iran’s Assembly of Experts that selects and supervises the supreme leader’s activities.
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Radio Free Europe:
The slogan "Death To America" was chanted in Iran during the revolution in 1979 and it became a part of all state-organized demonstration, where sometimes U.S. flags are also burned.
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That definitely mirros harsh rhetoric like this:
THE PRESIDENT: Today I want to extend my very best wishes to all who are celebrating Nowruz around the world.

This holiday is both an ancient ritual and a moment of renewal, and I hope that you enjoy this special time of year with friends and family.

In particular, I would like to speak directly to the people and leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nowruz is just one part of your great and celebrated culture. Over many centuries your art, your music, literature and innovation have made the world a better and more beautiful place.

Here in the United States our own communities have been enhanced by the contributions of Iranian Americans. We know that you are a great civilization, and your accomplishments have earned the respect of the United States and the world.

...

You, too, have a choice. The United States wants the Islamic Republic of Iran to take its rightful place in the community of nations. You have that right — but it comes with real responsibilities, and that place cannot be reached through terror or arms, but rather through peaceful actions that demonstrate the true greatness of the Iranian people and civilization. And the measure of that greatness is not the capacity to destroy, it is your demonstrated ability to build and create.
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The Response from Iran? Guess. It's not hard, because the response has only 3 words. I'll give you a hint: the first word is "death".

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/03/iran_responds_death_to_america.asp
In a speech on Saturday, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei responded directly to Barack Obama's video mash note from late last week. According to the Associated Press: "Khamenei, wearing a black turban and dark robes, said America was hated around the world for its arrogance, as the crowd chanted 'Death to America.'"
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Doctor Evil said:
A new report is out following the last inspection of the site at Qum. I have found this bit to be interesting:
They confirmed American and European intelligence reports that the site was built to house about 3,000 centrifuges, enough to produce enough material for one or two nuclear weapons a year. But that is too small to be useful in the production of fuel for civilian nuclear power, which is what Iran insists was the intended purpose of the site.
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It's worse than that! They're going to build 10 new enrichment plants, and each of them will too small for their civilian nuclear aims. What could this possibly mean?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8385275.stm

BBC said:
Iran's government has approved plans to build 10 new uranium enrichment plants, according to state media.

[...] President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told his cabinet that parliament had ordered that Iran should produce 20,000 megawatts of nuclear energy by 2020.

It therefore needed to make 250-300 tonnes of nuclear fuel a year, he said, which would require 500,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium.

Natanz has nearly 5,000 working centrifuges, with plans to build 54,000 in all.
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Boy, this thread is a clear demonstration as any that reality is cold and often slaps you.
 
WildCat said:
A target-rich environment?
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Death to America? I should take the hint and move to New Zealand already.

All I read in the news is how "Iran defies...defies...defied...." Are we sure its not a suicidal government? :covereyes
 
Perhaps Iran hopes to be the new Mecca for buyers of weapons-grade uranium.

10 new plants huh? They have got to be ****ing kidding me.

This has got to be a deathwish.

I really feel sorry for the Iranian people, cause they are gonna suffer the most from all of this.
 
My post #121:

That news leads me to believe that Iran will build another secret facility in case Qom site gets bombed ...
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Originally Posted by BBC
Iran's government has approved plans to build 10 new uranium enrichment plants, according to state media. [...] President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told his cabinet that parliament had ordered that Iran should produce 20,000 megawatts of nuclear energy by 2020. It therefore needed to make 250-300 tonnes of nuclear fuel a year, he said, which would require 500,000 centrifuges for enriching uranium. Natanz has nearly 5,000 working centrifuges, with plans to build 54,000 in all.
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This was not hard to predict, no need for me to try to collect the MDC.
 
FireGarden said:
You predicted "secret".
These are rub your nose in it public.

(I need a "wag my finger at you" smiley!)
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OK, but I was already not calling for the MDC. Close enough, got my B, passed the course, take the three hours of credit. ;)

DR
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100102/wl_mideast_afp/irannuclearpoliticsexchange

Iran's foreign minister gave the West a one-month "ultimatum" on Saturday to accept a uranium swap, warning that it will produce its own nuclear fuel for a Tehran reactor if there is no deal.

"The international community has just one month left to decide whether or not it will accept Iran's conditions," Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki was quoted by state television as saying.

"This is an ultimatum."

Iran, which rejected a December 31 deadline to accept a UN-brokered deal, said on Tuesday it was ready to swap abroad its low-enriched uranium for nuclear fuel, while insisting that the exchange happen in stages.
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And to think some racist and Islamophobic people think Iran wants a bomb, just because it constantly says so and broke every single "agreement" not to do so it every signed.
 
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