Iran crackin' down...

[Skeptic]

I'd say the top 5 reader's-recommended replies show that many Europeans aren't blind to the fact that Israel's possession of nuclear weapons drives Iran and other Muslim nation in the region to desire the same power.

...or that the BBC's viewers are rather infected with the usual "Israel-is-to-blame-for-everything" mantra of the European elites.

A nuclear armed Iran poses no more of a world threat then a nuclear armed North Korea or Pakistan

Somehow, that doesn't seem very reassuring.

 

[Thunder]

Avigdor Lieberman and Yisrael B'Teinu want to strip Arabs of their voting rights if they do not pledge allegiance to Zionism, and put them into jail if they publicly mourn the exile of 750,000 Palestinians in 1948.

wow...sounds sorta like the Nazis.

 

[WildCat]

Avigdor Lieberman and Yisrael B'Teinu want to strip Arabs of their voting rights if they do not pledge allegiance to Zionism, and put them into jail if they publicly mourn the exile of 750,000 Palestinians in 1948.

wow...sounds sorta like the Nazis.

When did they sieze dictatorial powers in Israel?

 

[Thunder]

When did they sieze dictatorial powers in Israel?

i said they WANT to do these things, not that they did.

reading is fundamental, my friend.

 

[WildCat]

i said they WANT to do these things, not that they did.

reading is fundamental, my friend.

But you used it in a pathetic attempt at a tu quoque argument. It falls short, as Iran has in fact executed people for political opposition.

You'll have a point (albeit a minor one) when the 2 nutters you referred to actually get such a law passed.

 

[Skeptic]

Not much chance of getting such a law passed -- it is more posturing than anything else. And the law should not be passed -- it is a bad law.

But to understand the laws' motivation, one needs to understand that "mourning the Nakba" is really (and understood by those who come to "mourn") a code word for "Israel should be destroyed", as can be amply seen by, if nothing else, the typical "pro-Palestinian" demonstration on the average college campus. The same holds true among such demonstrations in Israel.

 

[Skeptic]

For a "dictatorship", Israel sure is doing it wrong -- there are so many parties in the Israeli parliament that practically nothing can get done.

Weird sort of dictatorship, that.

 

[Gaspode]

Some posts moved to AAH.

Keep it civil and on-topic from now on please.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[Thunder]

For a "dictatorship", Israel sure is doing it wrong -- there are so many parties in the Israeli parliament that practically nothing can get done.

um...who accused Israel of being a dictatorship?

 

[Darth Rotor]

are many Europeans really blind about the dangers a nuclear-armed Iran poses?

To whom?

The strategic problem Iran has in developing nuclear weapons is that it makes many of its neighbors nervous, with the possible mid to long term outcome of relations between Israel and these nations improving, to the detriment of Iran's regional influence.

But since Hitler wouldn't have seen it that way, I suppose you won't either.

J
F
C
O
A
C

PS: I'd like to point out that this thread is allegedly about Iran's crack down ...

@ Skeptic: Ahmadejinad is not Hitler. You are no better at wielding a shoehorn and WD 40 than Zardoz. It isn't necessary to link him to the Third Reich in order for him to be malevolent. The guy has issues, and poses problems for the region, in his own context.

DR

 

[Skeptic]

He certainly isn't Hitler in certain important respects: he doesn't have absolute power, for example, nor is there a cult around him in the same way there was around Hitler.

But the point isn't that they are similar in everything. The point is that they are similar in important respects -- which other dictators do not share (such as belief in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, to name one).

 

[Sporanox]

Where have you been the last nine months? It's already there in a substantial way. Members of the Iranian Guardian Council-- who have the sole political authority to depose Khamenei-- are getting more on-board with the Green Revolution movement (last year at this time it was mostly just Rafsanjani). The last anti-Western holiday in Iran was met with huge protests against the current regime at the risk of the protesters' lives. The Green Revolution movement itself is made up of predominantly younger people, and half of Iran's population is under 30. The Iranian regime has actually had to ship people in from other countries to help crack down on its citizens, and even this hasn't slowed the movement down (and, if anything, has inflamed more people to join).

Exactly what do you have to see to acknowledge "tak[ing] root in a substantial way" in Iran?

Regime change.

 

[Darth Rotor]

But the point isn't that they are similar in everything. The point is that they are similar in important respects -- which other dictators do not share (such as belief in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, to name one).

I think you overstate the importance of this similarity. First off, he doesn't have a whole boat load of domestic Jews to abuse. Secondly, unlike Germany, which in the first third of the last Century was a Power, like France or England was a Power, Iran isn't a Power. Iran is a mid grade power trying to grow, but hasn't the economic muscle to do as Germany did: grow into a bigger fish in the pond.

Thirdly through about fifteenthly, it takes little to no time to arrive at more dissimilarities, which time I'll not waste.

Mahmoud, due to his attention whoring, is a bloody nuisance to the US, and a potential threat to his regional neighbors, many of whom don't like Israel. His bluster and the atomic program have the potential to drive Israel and some of his Arab neighbors to a closer security relationship. As I noted to Zardoz, that's not a good outcome for the Persians.

If you are Israeli, I get your concern: he has specifically targeted your nation as a major rival/enemy/political opponent.

But this isn't news, and hasn't been for some years.

The crackdown, internal, isn't Israel's fault, nor much of anyone's fault, but rather a result of discontent among some of the Iranian electorate. Funnily enough, the OP chose to spin this tale with a deliberate link to Israel/Jews. We watch the monkey see monkey do responses.

Sorry, I had forgotten: it's all about Israel.

DR

 

[ZARDOZ]

@ Skeptic: Ahmadejinad is not Hitler. You are no better at wielding a shoehorn and WD 40 than Zardoz. It isn't necessary to link him to the Third Reich in order for him to be malevolent. The guy has issues, and poses problems for the region, in his own context.

DR

I did not say Ahmadejinad is Hitler. Damn Darth why do you continue with that strawman argument? You are completely wrong about me saying Ahmadejinad is Hitler.

I said this - here's the quote with link:

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad... goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign.

See how the SUBJECT is Nazi Germany NOT Hitler. See how I said "sounds like" and not "Ahmadejinad is Hitler." Why do you continue to mischaracterize what I said 120 some posts ago?

Funnily enough, the OP chose to spin this tale with a deliberate link to Israel/Jews. And watch the monkey see monkey do responses. DR

I did not "deliberately link this thread to Israel/Jews." I asked why are the most reader-recommended posts at the BBC in a thread about Iran are all anti-Israeli instead of on topic. I asked this - here's the quote with link:

Which leads me to the question, since these "Have Your Say" reader's-recommended replies are mainly by Europeans, are many Europeans really blind about the dangers a nuclear-armed Iran poses?

See how I am asking about Europeans and not Israelis?

Wow, I've spent more time in this thread dealing with what people claim I said than what I actually did say. And frankly that is not debate or interesting to readers.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Dual post, apologies.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I did not say Ahmadejinad is Hitler. Damn Darth why do you continue with that strawman argument? You are completely wrong about me saying Ahmadejinad is Hitler.

But I didn't say that to you, Zardoz. I said that to Skeptic.

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad... goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign.

Right. You Godwinned, right out of the box. Sloppy you. Lazy you. This is a tough room. Your play is JV.

I accused you of attempting to shoehorn Mahmoud into the Hitler/Nazi cookie cutter. I called you out on an obvious and lame Godwin argument that you opened with, dearly dishonest person, when your thread title was about Iran cracking down internally. You went immediately for the shoehorn, the WD 40, and the shoe that you insist must fit.

Zardoz = Fail

Once again: you are intellectually lazy, as your first reach to make an analogy, one completely unnecessary analogy, was to the Nazis.

I encourage you to show the Persians some respect: they can be complete ********* in their own right. There were people hating Jews for centuries before the Third Reich showed up. There were people oppressing dissenters for centuries on end. Oppression of dissent continues in a multitude of ways, means, and places. Why, then, must needs you reach to the Reich?

Sloppy, unimaginative you.

The young lady doth protest too loudly ...

did not "deliberately link this thread to Israel/Jews." I asked why are the most reader-recommended posts at the BBC in a thread about Iran are all anti-Israeli instead of on topic. I asked this - here's the quote with link:

But you did, since you chose to link to all of the inane commentary, which is where Israel comes up. But of course, your topic is the Crackdown in Iran, unless it isn't, and you are just a garden variety liar.

Also possible.

DR

 

[ZARDOZ]

But I didn't say that to you, Zardoz. I said that to Skeptic. DR

You said this... and I quote:

@ Skeptic: Ahmadejinad is not Hitler. You are no better at wielding a shoehorn and WD 40 than Zardoz. It isn't necessary to link him to the Third Reich in order for him to be malevolent. The guy has issues, and poses problems for the region, in his own context.

Then you went back after I responded to those words, YOUR words, and edited/deleted what you wrote. 'Nuff said.

Right. You Godwinned, right out of the box. Sloppy you. Lazy you. This is a tough room. Your play is JV. DR

The Germans during Hitler reich had a policy called Gleichschaltung. That is how the Third Reich kept Germans in line with the government. Ahmadinejad's government is doing the same thing as Gleichschaltung - beatings, intimidation, imprisonment, executions - for opposing Ahmadinejad. I am not out of line for comparing the two policies.

I accused you of attempting to shoehorn Mahmoud into the Hitler/Nazi cookie cutter. DR

Which I did not do. I compared a policy that the Nazis used with a policy Ahmadinejad's government is doing. We just don't have an name for the Persian version of that policy.

I called you out on an obvious and lame Godwin argument that you opened with, dearly dishonest person, when your thread title was about Iran cracking down internally. You went immediately for the shoehorn, the WD 40, and the shoe that you insist must fit.

Zardoz = Fail

Once again: you are intellectually lazy, as your first reach to make an analogy, one completely unnecessary analogy, was to the Nazis.

DR

I feel no need to debate what you think I said.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I compared a policy that the Nazis used with a policy Ahmadinejad's government is doing. We just don't have an name for the Persian version of that policy.

Oppression. Tyranny. Sure you do. But that's not enough for you. Gotta reach for the Reich. No matter that indoctrination and equivalent political abuse and intimidation went on for decades longer in China, in Russia, and elsewhere. See also Viet Nam, and the lovely little reeducation camps.

But no, if Zardoz wants an example, he reaches for the Reich. It's got extra special anchovies for his pizza.

@ Grenme: the similarities are not the issue, most oppressive regimes use similar methods, and for that matter, probably copy what they see as the most effective in other repressive regimes. Monkey see, monkey do. But I'll point out to you, as done elsewhere, that Persians are fully able to come up with assholiness aplenty, on their own, and need not rely on German methods to achieve their aims. There are ample models to choose from.

Back to Zardoz: tell me, why are you concerned about Iran, it's government's oppression of its own people, and its attempt to build its nuclear posture?

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad...

Funny, Mandela got a lot more than six years for his political opposition, in South Africa. But six years! Oh, the drama! The Horror! How long has that nice Burmese lady been under house arrest? Aung San Suu Kyi is who I refer to here.

And you quote, in your OP ...

"So it's alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons.

Oh, dear, what could possibly be your motive for raising this concern?

The slut young lady protesteth too loudly.

On this note, I have no idea what you are getting at:

Then you went back after I responded to those words, YOUR words, and edited/deleted what you wrote. 'Nuff said.

I probably ought to use "preview" more often, as I often write something, see what I wrote, and note that I wrote too fast or whatever, so I fix it on the spot. But to presume that I edited due to something you said is incorrect. With the time tags, it may have appeared to you that I did that, but I didn't.

You aren't worth the effort.

PS: about your dishonesty:

Me: Funnily enough, the OP chose to spin this tale with a deliberate link to Israel/Jews. And watch the monkey see monkey do responses.
You: I did not "deliberately link this thread to Israel/Jews."

Yes you did. Look at the link you posted in your OP. You CHOSE that link.

I asked why are the most reader-recommended posts at the BBC in a thread about Iran are all anti-Israeli instead of on topic.

Yes, so YOU linked it to Israel in your post. You chose to highlight that feature. It was your OP, to craft as you will, and THAT is what you chose to address.

I hope you realize that I am not the only person who noticed this.

DR

 

[ZARDOZ]

Oppression. Tyranny. Sure you do. But that's not enough for you. Gotta reach for the Reich. DR

I referenced the Reich because of a policy the Reich used, Gleichschaltung. That was over 120 posts ago.

Back to Zardoz: tell me, why are you concerned about Iran, it's government's oppression of its own people, and its attempt to build its nuclear posture? DR

Why should I since you said to me:

You aren't worth the effort. DR

I ain't worth the effort... remember you words to me?

Oh, dear, what could possibly be your motive for raising this concern? DR

I dunno. Tell me Darth, what was my motive. I am dying to hear my motive from you.

The slut young lady protesteth too loudly. DR

So now I am "a slut." Wow. Do you ever think how you come off when you write such garbage? Why the MODS allow you to call other posters names is beyond me.

I probably ought to use "preview" more often, as I often write something, see what I wrote, and note that I wrote too fast or whatever, so I fix it on the spot. But to presume that I edited due to something you said is incorrect. With the time tags, it may have appeared to you that I did that, but I didn't. DR

Anyhow. I'm done. JREF is a place full of seriously hostile people who I have no use for. I have had nothing but hostility from you Darth Rotor, from Cleon, from The Fool, from Parky... and frankly this place is far too negative for me to be interested in belonging to anymore. You guys can't even debate without name-calling.

 

[The Fool]

Anyhow. I'm done. JREF is a place full of seriously hostile people who I have no use for. I have had nothing but hostility from you Darth Rotor, from Cleon, from The Fool, from Parky... and frankly this place is far too negative for me to be interested in belonging to anymore. You guys can't even debate without name-calling.

pick a more interesting name for the next one....