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Interview with Charlie Veitch - The truther who changed his mind (part 1)

enik said:
Because he knows his position and I know his position. I was wondering if anyone else did. Do you think JSanderO is a truther?
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I don't know what it is. He seems disdainful of AE911T, and makes some good points, but I don't know about his overall position.
 
Miragememories said:
... There has been no debunking of the finding that nanothermite permeated all the WTC dust from 9/11.

But you are entitled to believe what you wish to believe.

MM
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12 years of woo

nanothermite was not found in the dust : o

Jones made it up. The paper clearly shows no nanothermite. Even Veitch knows this.
 
My overall position is that the CD case has not been made... the inside job is not credible to me. I believe that the gov leveraged 9/11 for post 9/11 policies and this was an over reach. I also believe that the details of NIST explanations appear to have some errors. I don't believe sagging trusses led to global collapse in either twin tower nor girder walk off at col 79 flr 13. I think heat and mechanical destruction accounts for the twins' initiation and ROOSD works for the collapse phase. 7 seems to be a transfer truss truss failure or there abouts on 5,6 & 7.

I am interested in the correct details of the collapses... I do not consider myself to be a truther... despite the deception of the government and what I see as the inadequacy of the technical reports (in my opinion).
 
Liam said:
Interesting. I haven't seen the 9/11 Conspiracy Road Trip program. The Irishman who presented that did a similar thing with the July 7th ("7/7") London bombings conspiracy theorists. A few of them changed their mind, or at least wavered somewhat.
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I watched the 7/7 documentary.

Sadly though, I saw posts on a forum from people that were on the program and said that the bbc had made a few of them mad by the way they edited the program, left out 'facts' that they insisted they wanted on the program.

I think the one guy that was on it did a few youtube videos before and after he went on the program. It was a bit of an eye opener for me.
 
Miragememories said:
People that do not share much in common other than a sincere wish to better understand what happened on 9/11 and enough concern to keep looking for the important answers.

They are people who want to know what really happened to WTC7 and are brave enough to accept knowledge that may be extremely unpleasant to hear.

They are people who want Dr. Millette to take a moment from his busy day and settle what he started, debunk or not debunk the 2009 Bentham paper which found nano-thermite to be permeating all of the 9/11 WTC dust.

And you insult such people by branding them as cultists.

MM
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Rubbish.

My experience with 9/11 Truthers demonstrates almost without exception that they are anything but what you describe. They create a fantasy where they pretend they really want to know what happened, but they don't. They believe they already know what happened and for them the belief is much more important than the knowing. Truthers show an almost unique ability to reject the most reasoned and well supported arguments in favor of wild, bat-feces crazy scheme's simply because it conforms to their pre-concieved notions.

I have quite a bit of personal experience with cults and I find the behavior of 9/11 Truthers in general to be very much in line with the cult label.
 
JSanderO said:
The truth movement is very much like any other cult.... driven by little to no rational thinking/science and led by charismatic people who exploit weak minds. Yet you do find several educated and intelligent people who allow themselves to accept irrational arguments because they sound convincing... such as Lynn Margulis. These people then seem to reinforce the cult-like believers that the truth movement is a rational position to take. The events were very complex, unseen and so there is no basis for comparison to other real world events and so the truth guys can make extraordinary claims and get away with it with many people who accept their framing.
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The events were complex but not complex in the way Truthers want them to be.
 
Enlightening, but I'm not at all surprised that CV was on the receiving end of all that hate - it's hard for fanatics to reconcile the real world with their fantasies, and someone from their side of the street that renounces their dogma is a serious enemy.
 
Mark F said:
Rubbish.


I have quite a bit of personal experience with cults and I find the behavior of 9/11 Truthers in general to be very much in line with the cult label.
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I can't agree, Mark. My experience with cults involves a strong leader who everyone must agree with or be punished, exorcised or shunned. The 9/11 Truth movement has believers in CD, mininukes, no-planes, space rays, etc etc etc. Others do ask a lot of questions and don't accept the answers they get from "consensus" experts. Ask Richard Gage how easy it is to create a single, unified group of 9/11 followers! This is not typical of a cult at all.
 
chrismohr said:
I can't agree, Mark. My experience with cults involves a strong leader who everyone must agree with or be punished, exorcised or shunned. The 9/11 Truth movement has believers in CD, mininukes, no-planes, space rays, etc etc etc. Others do ask a lot of questions and don't accept the answers they get from "consensus" experts. Ask Richard Gage how easy it is to create a single, unified group of 9/11 followers! This is not typical of a cult at all.
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Chris, there are lots of Truther groups just like there are many cults of many types. Many of those cults are hostile to other cults with very similar beliefs because only one of course can have the one true gospel. It really isn't that far apart.

What I am particularly referring to is the slavish devotion of the followers and their relative immunity to rational thought in most instances.

But i don't wish to derail this thread,...
 
Miragememories said:
I bolded your gross generalization because it is incoherent.

Your scorn seems at odds with your believing there was an "engineered collapse"?

You need a tough skin to survive the consequences of asking unpleasant questions.

Which has a lot to do with why the truth movement is such a disorganized mix of people.

People that do not share much in common other than a sincere wish to better understand what happened on 9/11 and enough concern to keep looking for the important answers.

They are people who want to know what really happened to WTC7 and are brave enough to accept knowledge that may be extremely unpleasant to hear.
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Right on the money. Humans are social creatures, and the ability to withstand peer pressure is a rare personality trait. In an evolutionary sense, you could even call it maladaptive. So the bedunkers are half-assed right with their 'cult' spin, in a way. This mutual gullibility that afflicts us wouldn't ordinarily be such a bad thing, if the amount of knowledge in our culture hadn't started at zilch.

Maybe if mankind had the benefit of some divinely conferred knowledge, the ignorance and superstition that fllourished in its wake wouldn't have to be painfully dispelled, inch by inch over the millenia (with many a heretic getting burned at the stake: Too often is there a thin line between the brilliant and the insane). Some think that we have outgrown such barbaric tendancys, just because we passed through the renaissance, but you and I know better ;)
 
TheJamesrocket said:
Right on the money. Humans are social creatures, and the ability to withstand peer pressure is a rare personality trait. In an evolutionary sense, you could even call it maladaptive. So the bedunkers are half-assed right with their 'cult' spin, in a way. This mutual gullibility that afflicts us wouldn't ordinarily be such a bad thing, if the amount of knowledge in our culture hadn't started at zilch.

Maybe if mankind had the benefit of some divinely conferred knowledge, the ignorance and superstition that fllourished in its wake wouldn't have to be painfully dispelled, inch by inch over the millenia (with many a heretic getting burned at the stake: Too often is there a thin line between the brilliant and the insane). Some think that we have outgrown such barbaric tendancys, just because we passed through the renaissance, but you and I know better ;)
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Nice speech :rolleyes: lol
 
TheJamesrocket said:
Right on the money. Humans are social creatures, and the ability to withstand peer pressure is a rare personality trait. In an evolutionary sense, you could even call it maladaptive. So the bedunkers are half-assed right with their 'cult' spin, in a way. This mutual gullibility that afflicts us wouldn't ordinarily be such a bad thing, if the amount of knowledge in our culture hadn't started at zilch.

Maybe if mankind had the benefit of some divinely conferred knowledge, the ignorance and superstition that fllourished in its wake wouldn't have to be painfully dispelled, inch by inch over the millenia (with many a heretic getting burned at the stake: Too often is there a thin line between the brilliant and the insane). Some think that we have outgrown such barbaric tendancys, just because we passed through the renaissance, but you and I know better ;)
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'''
I love the baby talk, bedunkers, so cute. Is that 911 truth engineering talk?

“I don’t think 9/11 was an inside job,” Charlie Veitch
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A cured cult member. Once one with Alex Jones, he got better, or what? Why can't you figure out 911 after 12 years? Veitch did.

And here you are spreading the partyline for a failed cult. A failed cult, no evidence to support the delusions, the idiotic claims. You have nonsense.
http://kesler12-jamesrocket.blogspot.com/2013/07/military-officials-implicated-in-911.html
... far out stuff, you are in a cult with no goal, no purpose, no clue.
 
TheRedWorm said:
NoahFence said:
How exactly does one go about debunking something so laughably inaccurate?
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Point and laugh?
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:dl:
BStrong said:
Enlightening, but I'm not at all surprised that CV was on the receiving end of all that hate - it's hard for fanatics to reconcile the real world with their fantasies, and someone from their side of the street that renounces their dogma is a serious enemy.
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Back in 2011, when Dylan Avery came out saying he wasn't a Truther, a reporter asked his opinion regarding CV's recent defection, and that Avery said that Veitch had every right to change his mind. Did Avery get called a shill as well?
 
Miragememories said:
The NIST explanation for WTC7 has been debunked.
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Has it now? My, isn't that quite the revelation. Would you be kind enough to start a thread for your findings on the matter? Or if such a thread already exists, link me to it?

I only suggest a separate thread as this current thread is for a different subject and it would be impolite to derail.
 
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