Internet via electricity?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

So how does it work to deliver Internet content via the electric grid? Is it a one-way connection? How does it deliver different content to different outlets?

There are experiments with this going on the UK and The Netherlands, I think.

~~ Paul

 

[Skat Bo]

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but here's this.

I've heard of something that uses electricity like it would a synapse. The electricity jumps from one location to another, without any medium in between to transmit it. I heard about the research being done *With a few successful tests* about two years ago. Is that what you were talking about?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

No, this is Internet delivery over the electric grid, to your house, and available at electric outlets.

~~ Paul

 

[Skat Bo]

My bad - you might try posting this thread in the 'math science technology...whatever else is in that section' section.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

It's being tested in Germany, too.

Beats me how it works, but as far as I can remember you will have to use some sort of modem, of couse. It is said to be quite fast and down- and upstream.

But it is being tested and tested and tested…

 

[arcticpenguin]

They superimpose a high frequency signal on top of the 50/60 Hz power. I think the biggest hitch is getting around tranformers, and there are methods for that.

Otherwise, It's just like any other network medium. You would need a box to hook up, and it is two-way.

To find articles, tyr search for
network over power lines
or
internet over power lines

 

[Soapy Sam]

...and be sure your processor is rate for 20,000V.

 

[scribble]

I used to experiment with the technologies that route data through your home power grid - there are many. There is even a popular line of home security devices which communicates in this fashion, i'm sorry I can't remember the name.

In my experience, such devices are highly unreliable and suffer from many power-induced problems, as a typical house's powergrid is -- well, crappy. You get all kinds of bad wiring and sub obtimal conditions, plus the power will usually be spiky and messy.

I guess they've made some new breakthroughs that allow this to be possible, or there's some catch we're not hearing.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I seem to recall an article in a PC mag about this , at least three years ago, more likely four. I just pawed through the back numbers I still have, but it's not in them. It also discussed using the house wiring for PC networking and domestic automation.

Noise (in the non acoustic sense) seemed to be the main problem.

It seems to be a long time coming .

 

[MRC_Hans]

I have experimented with this waaay back. That was for audio transmission. Yes, you superimpose a carrier-wave over the power AC, it carries a surprising distance. It is not passed through any mains transformer (there isn't really one in a PC power supply anyway), it is tapped before that. It works best in a LAN configuration. I think the technology is fully operative and available.

Hans

 

[a_unique_person]

I can remember experiments with transmitting data over the powergrid from over 20 years ago being discussed when I was doing engineering. There must have been a few more glitches or commercial considerations to hold it up than they expected.

 

[Ove]

The trouble is that the power net IS already being used to transmit data, at least in some countries. We (Bang & Olufsen) has to test our products against that, in some (cheap) amplifiers you can hear those codes as beeps. Switzerland f.inst uses this tecnology.

They have two electricity rates and if you have some equipment that runs automatic you can buy a modem like contraption that will start your machine when the rates are cheap and turn it off when the price goes up.

The reason for the two rates is that they use a lot of hydro-electricity. You can't really "turn a waterfall down" so instead they try to encourage users to level the consumption over the whole 24 hrs.

Now i don't know but i could have a sneaking feeling that any computer transmission on the net MIGHT interfere with those codes.

Then again as Hans said, it really is old hat. I remember clearly intercoms using this tecnology back in the 70'es.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I still don't understand how they deliver different content to different electric outlets.

I mean, I understand it works like cable, but where do they inject the content?

~~ Paul

 

[jj]

I still don't understand how they deliver different content to different electric outlets.

I mean, I understand it works like cable, but where do they inject the content?

~~ Paul

The same way that a cable works, Paul.

Both cables and powerline modems work by doing modulation of some sort. The content is injected on a higher-frequency carrier that goes along the power line for some distance, usually not through a transformer, though, unless it's bypassed somehow.

There are probably a number of frequencies used, one for downlink and at least one for uplink, with some kind of protocol managing the lot.

You recognize "your" data by the address, just like any other multicomputer network.

I can imagine it's got some problems, but I know that signalling methods like this have been used for some time, just not in the internet field, yet, at least.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I still don't understand how they deliver different content to different electric outlets.

I mean, I understand it works like cable, but where do they inject the content?

~~ Paul

For a network solution, just like a LAN. Signals are tapped and injected at any outlet. Technically, it works by inserting a small RF transformer called a balloon. The injected carrier-wave is midulated in a suitable way to encode digital sequences, which are transmitted as addressed data packages.

Hans

 

[Soapy Sam]

Content?

What content?

I thought we were talking about the internet.

 

[LW]

In my experience, such devices are highly unreliable and suffer from many power-induced problems, as a typical house's powergrid is -- well, crappy. You get all kinds of bad wiring and sub obtimal conditions, plus the power will usually be spiky and messy.

I've heard that one additional problem with data transport over electric grid is that it can generate noise signals that interfere with other electronic equipment.

 

[Jim_MDP]

Content?

What content?

I thought we were talking about the internet.

Hey, pr0n is content too.

Bigot.

 

[Colloden]

I saw a Ph.D studentship for this kind of thing about five years ago, I think arcticpenguin is the closest on the operation front (from what little I can remember).

 

[juninho]

I saw a Ph.D studentship for this kind of thing about five years ago, I think arcticpenguin is the closest on the operation front (from what little I can remember).

Can't possibly quote.