Interesting JE Hits....

[Clancie]

Posted by Loki

Now, I'd agree that 22 minute readings are likely to be the exception, not the rule. But really, the truth is that the "11" minute figure is closer to the truth than the "22" isn't it? I await Claus, Steve or Neo to confirm of deny the 11 minute figure!!

Fair enough! Thanks for the quick clarification.

 

[neofight]

Will you acknowledge that since there seems to be no evidence so far of telepathy originating in the physical brain, that the other-wordly spiritual explanation should be your assumption until present with further proof? Or at the very least that if you still believe it to be part of the physical brain, that there seems to be nothing supporting that assertion?

voidx, what I will do is leave science, and scientific explanations, to the scientists. I do not know what, if any, research has been done to date that might give evidence of telepathy originating from the physical brain. If I come across any of the material that I've read in the past on the subject of the right temporal lobe and PSI, I will post it. .....neo

 

[SteveGrenard]

I thought I made it very clear that there is no pre-set time for a reading JE gives in a studio taping. And there is no preset number of shows they get from a single taping session, the reading part of which I timed at about 3 hrs and 14 minutes out of the 4 hours we had to remain glued to our seats. This was on the day I was there, July 23, 2002.

I have seen material from the same reading also extended onto two different episodes so this is known to occur. I also gave a
single example of a reluctant sitter JE said he couldnt get passed which occupied 45 minutes of the reading taping time. I have no idea if this was a frequent ocurrence and suspect that a lot of the silent portions of this reading were edited out.

The show is 22 minutes in a 30 min timeslot, the other 8 mins occupied by commercial breaks. I have seen shows with 3 readings and I have seen shows occupied by just one reading. I have seen shows half occupied with follow-ups or reprises and I have seen shows where there were none. I have seen shows with one-on-ones, with celeb readings and shows where there were none of this. There are two kinds of follow-ups: one takes place the same day in the studio after the main taping is over and those read are held back from leaving to do this. The other type involves a crew going out to the sitters home and interviewing them and other family members who were not present and verifying things about the reading which could not be validated in the studio. We see a lot of old photos, household items mentioned in the reading and mementos in these. They serve to verify that what the sitter validated in the studio was, in fact, true.

Paul Shavelson said this was a very variable process with no pre-cast formula. I will leave it at that. This attempt to standardize that which is not, in reality, standardized is an exercise in futility.
I understand the underlying motivation is to prove the show is edited for content. This will not do it. Only a side by side comparison of up to approx 32 hours of rolled footage against X number of shows cut from this will tell you that. I say 32 hours because its
the product of 4 hrs X 8 cameras. And yeah, I know, its a lot of cameras but that's what I counted when I was there. They get a lot of coverage apparently. Was I sure all of them were running all the time? No.

 

[Clancie]

Posted by Steve Grenard

Only a side by side comparison of up to approx 32 hours of rolled footage against X number of shows cut from this will tell you that. I say 32 hours because its the product of 4 hrs X 8 cameras.

Hi Steve,

Well, I was right there with you until this last part.

I don't think we disagree, but I just wanted to clarify the above. If JE reads you for an hour--even if he's got ten different cameras filming it, its still just a 1 hour reading, not 10 hours worth of readings.

I'm sure you weren't implying otherwise, but selecting which camera angles to use from 4 hours of taped CO, doesn't mean there are 32 hours of footage of individual readings to choose from to make up 5 or 6 programs.

If 20 people are read in a day, its still just 20 readings in 4 hours, and the number of camera angles available to choose from has no bearing on how much of filmed readings are available for the shows at all.

The way its worded above makes it sound like 32 hours of taped readings are then editing down to 5 or 6 half hour shows--obviously not what's actually happening just because you've got several cameras filming the same reading.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Clanci: Well, I was right there with you until this last part.

I don't think we disagree, but I just wanted to clarify the above. If JE reads you for an hour--even if he's got ten different cameras filming it, its still just a 1 hour reading, not 10 hours worth of readings.

Yes, it would be just one reading from eight or six or whatever different camera angles. But if one wanted to be scientifically accurate in assessing the editing question one would have to look at all the footage to decide the show was not edited for content. In some angles we just see JE, in others just the sitter, sometimes John and the sitter, and while the reading is going on long shots of the audience. But yes, 8 different angles of one cohesive reading. Not all the cameras may've been running all the time, also requiring one to look at all the angles. Geez, what if they missed a head nod or something and it got into Time magazine? Its complex and would be unbearably tedious as all editing is.



Clanci: I'm sure you weren't implying otherwise, but selecting which camera angles to use from 4 hours of taped CO, doesn't mean there are 32 hours of footage of individual readings to choose from to make up 5 or 6 programs.

yup. Actually up to 8 different programs, sometimes more, sometimes less. Its a business. Four hours of taping cost them thousands and thousands of dollars. For financial reasons alone they want to use as much of the footage as possible and get as much product out of each session as possible. This factor sort of puts a hole in the theory that most of the footage winds up cut. But there truly is no formula. Its all spontaneous and they never know what they are going to wind up with. They do not air long silences. We know that from watching the show as we see shorter ones which may've been much longer in reality. We saw many long silences.

And....no reading is 32 hrs long, thought that would be obvious.

Clanci: If 20 people are read in a day, its still just 20 readings in 4 hours, and the number of camera angles available to choose from has no bearing on how much of filmed readings are available for the shows at all.

Correct. We actually counted what were 8 separate readings on the day we were there and they were of different lengths. One was the 45 minute reading, some were much shorter, some in between. Sorry, didn't keep track of this with so much else to keep track of. But they were all of different lengths.


Clanci: The way its worded above makes it sound like 32 hours of taped readings are then editing down to 5 or 6 half hour shows--obviously not what's actually happening just because you've got several cameras filming the same reading.

Hmm..how can one have 32 hours of readings if they were taping for 4 hours? LOL. I don't think the math works.

 

[RC]

I suppose that's true, RC. If I am willing to believe that JE could be a medium, then yes, I'm willing to accept that people he refers to as mediums, probably are. (Ooooh! Appealing to authority!) lol

I know that when John's mother died, he had requested her to contact him through Shelley Peck, since he didn't trust his own objectivity to get her messages directly. If you remember, instead, his mom came through to Suzane Northrup, even though JE didn't really know SN very well at the time.......neo

Sheesh, take one day off of JREF and I'm behind 3 pages of threads.

Suzane Northrop is a cheesy cold reader. Anyone who sits through her seminar should be able to see this. You would also, Neo. I don't believe that JE's mom "came through" SN. She either tricked him or they are both liars, in my humble, very strong, opinion.

Do you think the Pet Psychic is for real?

 

[RC]

I shouldn't ask here since you're going to start another thread - but did you ever get any sort of confirmation that your instructor did in fact have two grandfathers, Tom and Johann? Were they both grandfathers? great grandfathers? great great etc?

I'm so cynical of so-called mediums... especially those charging money to teach their craft... I wouldn't put it past them to tell you that you were getting interesting hits just to keep you coming back for more classes.

It would seem there's a conflict of interest in reading your instructor.

I didn't get confirmation at the time, but I have since. They were both grandfathers and I've seen letters that back it up. I've since become friends with the teacher. She never pushed me to take another class with her. In fact, the mediumship experiment was on the final day of the 5 day series (which only cost $30 per 3 hour class, and included yummy snacks, handouts and a notepad).

There may have been a conflict of interest, but it wasn't like I was sitting down just reading the teacher. We meditated as a group (about 6 of us) and then called out what we "saw". That was when she piped up.

Look, if this woman had insisted that I was a real medium and that I must work with her (for a fee) to improve my skills, then I would share your cynicism. Instead, she just acted like she was pleased that her grandfathers came through and that was that.

I think she is sincere with her work.

I will start a thread about all this over the weekend.

 

[RC]

Well, maybe so, RC, but on the other hand, I think it's cool that in your short time in psychic development class you managed to experience both the literal (written word) type of image, and also the more subjective, symbolic type. Actually, I'd be thrilled if I were you. I'd also be signing up for more classes, since it appears you may have a flair for it.

I thought it was a very cool experience and it does keep me from giving up on mediumship. As for more classes, the only medium I trust is the one I took the original courses from. As you know, she is quite ill and not giving more classes. As it was, there weren't any more classes to take as I had gone through the whole 5 classes series.

The other issue, as I explained on Mike's thread, is that I'm not as interested in this anymore so the question is how to spend my time and money. Do I pursue this mediumship thing or do I take that series of wine tasting classes (which I'm doing in September, can't wait!)

 

[RC]

Interesting I suppose it could be said that the sitter therefore had a vested interest in your progress

Seriously, I do think it is very telling that the confirmation/validation seems to always to come from the sitter filling in the blanks. For instance the "impact in the chest area" type of hit only becomes a hit once the sitter fills in the blanks. The sitter has to say "Oh yes my grandfather was hit in the chest and then died" to make this hit. Otherwise it is meaningless. We never seem to get validations that don’t need infomration from the sitter for it to make sense. (Apart from Steve’s claims.) . We just don't see any evidence that mediums just say "Your grandfather on your mother side, Edward, died from a hit to the chest". The medium needs the sitter to develop the hit.


On another point:

I have often wondered if what happened to you explains why people start to think they have these types of gifts?

I would suggest that for many of us when we are relaxed etc. thoughts and images float across our mind. If you then mention this to someone e.g. "I was just thinking about a red car" and they say "that's spooky as I was just thinking about my grandfather and he always drove a red car", perhaps you'd start to think you had a gift...

All fair points, Darat, perhaps we can address further when I start the thread.

 

[neofight]

Suzane Northrop is a cheesy cold reader. Anyone who sits through her seminar should be able to see this. You would also, Neo. I don't believe that JE's mom "came through" SN. She either tricked him or they are both liars, in my humble, very strong, opinion.

I would be curious as to what a one-on-one might be like with SN after all the negative things that you have said about her, RC. What if she gave you a great reading? What then?

Do you think the Pet Psychic is for real?

I have yet to see one whole episode of the Pet Psychic, RC, and I have no opinion on Sonia. JE has been pretty accurate with many of the pets that he has brought through, or which at least have been acknowledged by people who have crossed over, however it works. He's gotten many dog and cat names, and even described many of them, so who knows? As I say, he might be getting their information from a human spirit, and not the animal itself. I don't know......neo

 

[Darat]

voidx, what I will do is leave science, and scientific explanations, to the scientists. I do not know what, if any, research has been done to date that might give evidence of telepathy originating from the physical brain. If I come across any of the material that I've read in the past on the subject of the right temporal lobe and PSI, I will post it. .....neo

Thankyou - a fair and reasonable answer.

 

[CFLarsen]

I have yet to see one whole episode of the Pet Psychic, RC, and I have no opinion on Sonia. JE has been pretty accurate with many of the pets that he has brought through, or which at least have been acknowledged by people who have crossed over, however it works. He's gotten many dog and cat names, and even described many of them, so who knows? As I say, he might be getting their information from a human spirit, and not the animal itself. I don't know......neo

Liar.

You have seen an episode of the Pet Psychic. You do have an opinion on Sonya. And you have changed your mind quite dramatically regarding JE and dead animals.

TVTalkshows
(neofight) 152.163.189.131 08-05-2002 11:31 PM
I don't know about this Sonya person. I only saw the show once, but my question would be that if some sort of communication with these deceased pets is possible, then why doesn't JE or any of the other mediums get any messages from them? I'm trying to remember the wording that JE uses when he mentions someone's dog that has passed over, and as far as I remember, I think John usually says something like, "he's saying he has the small black dog with him" or words to that effect. I never hear him say something like, "I have Rover coming through, and he's still pissed that you started buying him that really cheap dog food a year before he died."

I think that all life is sacred, but I am not sure that I would equate the soul of a human being with the soul of an animal. Not to say that some animals are not more noble than some humans, because I agree that is exactly the case many times, but I just don't think that they would be able to communicate in quite the same way. Just my two-cents worth.....neo

(emphasis mine)

Now, could you answer some questions?

Do you have any comment on the lack of support for your claim about the brain?

What happens to those readings at CO that are longer than 11 minutes?

As well as all the other questions you have dangling...I think it might be time for yet another list...

 

[Darat]

...snip...

yup. Actually up to 8 different programs, sometimes more, sometimes less. Its a business. Four hours of taping cost them thousands and thousands of dollars. For financial reasons alone they want to use as much of the footage as possible and get as much product out of each session as possible. This factor sort of puts a hole in the theory that most of the footage winds up cut. But there truly is no formula. Its all spontaneous and they never know what they are going to wind up with. They do not air long silences. We know that from watching the show as we see shorter ones which may've been much longer in reality. We saw many long silences.

And....no reading is 32 hrs long, thought that would be obvious. ...snip...

Steve - this doesn't "sort of puts a hole in the theory that most of the footage winds up cut".

I do agree that it is likely that a production company will try to use as much of the footage as possible since it is a business. However their over riding goal is to produce a programme that gets ratings; what they will do is use as much of the footage as they can that will achieve that goal.

As a total ‘for instance’, if JE did a reading in which he just spoke to the sitter twice, but meditated quietly saying or doing nothing for 20 minutes they are not likely to use the 20 minutes of meditation, as it would not achieve their goal of producing a show that gets the ratings.

In fact since it is a business then I would suggest that starting with the premise “they will seek to make this show as rating grabbing as possible” is a sensible starting point. And therefore since we know shows have in the past "distorted the truth" to achieve their goals a reasonable question to always ask is “Were/are ratings more important then the truth for producers of this show?” when reviewing any show.

(I am not saying this happens in Crossing Over or JE and his production company seek to "sensationalise" and allow the "truth" to become distorted to achieve higher ratings, only that there is evidence to support the contention that shows have and do distort the truth to achieve higher ratings.)

 

[juninho]

Lurker you're operating on the assumption that magic is real. DB shouldn't have to use the word "real" to heighten excitement unless people already believe magic is real/possible. So if magic is real and DB claims to use it, fine.

But it's known that DB does not use magic to perform his levitation trick.

The thing about DB's levitation trick is this:

1) He performs it as street magic in front of real passers-by. Its a simple trick that could be replicated by almost anyone, however;

2) For effect, he is then subsequently filmed in the same location but with the use of wires. The two sets of footage are then stitched together for airing on TV so that it appears his levitation is much more impressive than it actually is. Its a con.

 

[Loki]

Darat,

Nice sig... it's been years since I read Solzhenitsyn!

 

[Instig8R]

-snip-

I have yet to see one whole episode of the Pet Psychic, RC, and I have no opinion on Sonia. JE has been pretty accurate with many of the pets that he has brought through, or which at least have been acknowledged by people who have crossed over, however it works. He's gotten many dog and cat names, and even described many of them, so who knows? As I say, he might be getting their information from a human spirit, and not the animal itself. I don't know......neo

Neo, the "big sloppy black dog" reading was rerun on CO yesterday. This was the reading wherein JE supposedy communicated messages from a dead 170 lb. Newfie with hip dysplasia, whose owner had him euthanized. According to JE, the dog spirit was forgiving the owner for not being there when he was put down. In reality, fo course, one only had to watch the reading to discern that it was the live human in the audience who was giving JE the information, which he then re-phrased.

 

[Darat]

Darat,

Nice sig... it's been years since I read Solzhenitsyn!

Thanks for noticing, it really sums up my view that we are all human - even the monsters amongst us. (And Soubrette reccomended him to me - Thanks Sou.)

Sorry for the interuption back to the programme...

 

[CFLarsen]

Darat,

Nice sig... it's been years since I read Solzhenitsyn!

Psychically? You're a medium?

...a dead 170 lb. Newfie...

You don't call a 170 lb. dog "Newfie" to its face, do you..?

Carry on...

 

[RC]

I would be curious as to what a one-on-one might be like with SN after all the negative things that you have said about her, RC. What if she gave you a great reading? What then?

I'd probably die of a heart attack if she gave me a great reading.

I've seen her in person and I've yet to read a single transcript of her readings (except the ones in her own book, of course) to suggest that I would get anything but nonsense. Even her readings in the "Afterlife Experiments" are really bad. If she is the real deal, she is indistinguishable from a cold reader, in my opinion, so she isn't worth having a reading with.

 

[voidx]

voidx, what I will do is leave science, and scientific explanations, to the scientists. I do not know what, if any, research has been done to date that might give evidence of telepathy originating from the physical brain. If I come across any of the material that I've read in the past on the subject of the right temporal lobe and PSI, I will post it. .....neo

To echo Darat, fair enough. And by all means, post anything you might come across. We're always open to an interesting bit of reading here.