Interesting JE Hits....

[CFLarsen]

Claus,
FYI, I listened to your audio file of Bishop. It was totally garbled. Not a word was intelligible.

That's quite interesting, because I also let a Danish journalist listen to it. He had no such problems.

When did you listen to it? This is the first time you mention it.

Re: my "lies" and your 94mb file of all the TVT threads. Enough already.

Yes, I agree. We have established, once and for all, that you lied. Not just once, but several times. Enough already.

Re: Altea and JVP and the "books" you say you have of theirs. You seem to be stalling.

Nope. I can't find the JVP book (most of my books are still in boxes), but what page do you want me to scan of RA's "You Own the Power"?

Is this going to be like that memorable TVTalk weekend when you claimed to have read JE's books, disappeared for two days, then reemerged--finally--with some actual quotes?

Oh, please! Stop lying, Clancie! You know damn well that I was away that weekend - the two days you mentioned. Which I explained to you, and which you have conveniently "forgotten".

I mean, how hard is it to pull out a book from the shelf and quote whatever it is you're thinking of re: JVP and Altea? (Of course, it becomes very difficult if you don't actually have the books you're claiming you do).

I have told you that I have moved to Denmark. I have not yet established myself in a proper home. So most of my books are in storage.

I said I'd accept your quotes from the JVP and Altea books you have if you source them, and I will. Got any?

Sure. What page from the RA book do you want scanned?

Oh well, if not, by tomorrow you should be able to get to a bookstore or library and find something. I won't hold my breath that you're going to go ahead and post any actual quotes from your "books of theirs" today....

No. Now. What page do you want scanned??

 

[Clancie]

Good, at least we're getting somewhere with Altea.

No need to scan in pages. Just post some quotes that show how her view of the afterlife is so different from JE (since that's what your post was about). That'll do it!

 

[thaiboxerken]

LOL. This whole "process" arguement is silly. It involves way too many "if's" and "but"s. The laws of parsimony are clearly being violated with the "process" arguement of mediumship.

I'll tell you why the readings are not clear, it's because people aren't talking to ghosts or spirits. It's a guessing game.

John Edward is just an entertainer, read his disclaimer.

 

[CFLarsen]

Good, at least we're getting somewhere with Altea.

No need to scan in pages. Just post some quotes that show how her view of the afterlife is so different from JE (since that's what your post was about). That'll do it!

Page 9:

"Tell Daniel that no, I don't snowboard anymore. I do something much more fun. Tell him I 'cloudboard'...skating from one cloud to another, right across God's skies. Tell him also, plase, Rosemary, that I am his own personal angel, here to guide him for all of his life."

Here, RA tells of a dead person "cloudboarding" the clouds. Also, about personal angels.

This is a very precise description of life on the other side.

You want more? How many more? (Because otherwise, you will just keep asking and asking)

 

[CFLarsen]

Clancie,

When did you listen to the Graham Bishop recording? This is the first time you mention it.

(You do have a habit of leaving questions hanging, you know...)

 

[CFLarsen]

Clancie,

Page 265:

(RA is listening to the confessions of a former Nazi on his death bed)

I reached out and touched Joseph's face, and quietly said, "Joseph, God has sent me here to you. He is in my hands as I touch you. God is in my heart as I give my heart to you, and God is in the love that I share with you. Have no more fear, Joseph, for God is with us now. He hears your prayers, you are His son, and He loves you. And where God is, and where God goes, the devil cannot enter. Now go to sleep, have no more fear. God will keep you safe."

JE never refers to the afterlife with references to "God". RA is very certain what happens on the other side.

You want another? How many??

 

[Clancie]

Posted by CFLarsen

When did you listen to the Graham Bishop recording? This is the first time you mention it.

Some time back, when I got a different computer. But your audio file of Bishop was completely unintelligible. Does it sound clear to you?

re: Altea. Yes, I think those are good examples of some specifics she associates with the afterlife that JE doesn't.

So...Let's agree that Altea does offer some specific notions about it that he doesn't. What do you want us to make of that? That he isn't as "good" at communicating as RA is (with the help of her spirit guide)? That one or both of them are--because of their differences in perceptions--necessarily just "making it up"?

JE doesn't "get" much about the "other side", and some other mediums get many specifics. Does that mean he's a fake? That they are? Maybe so.

Or, hypothetically, could it just show that they have different strengths and abilities?

 

[CFLarsen]

Some time back, when I got a different computer. But your audio file of Bishop was completely unintelligible. Does it sound clear to you?

No, not "clear", as in CD quality. But definitely not "unintelligible".

"Some time back". I see. I don't believe you. Know why? The log tells me so, Clancie.

What, you thought I can't read a log??

re: Altea. Yes, I think those are good examples of some specifics she associates with the afterlife that JE doesn't.

Thank you. Your turn: What is the first word on page 175?

Let's say she does have these specific ideas about it that he doesn't. What do you want us to make of that? That he isn't as "good" at communicating as RA is (with the help of her spirit guide)? That one or both of them are because of their differences necessarily just "making it up"?

It tells us that there is profound disagreement among mediums about what goes on Over There. Why aren't they more in agreement about that, if they can agree on first letters of names, and specific hits? That is odd, isn't it?

JE doesn't "get" much about the "other side", and some other mediums get many specifics. Does that mean he's a fake? They are? Or maybe only that their abilities and strengths are different?

You tell me, you're the expert. What is your opinion of this? To me, it sounds like they each have their own story, completely made up.

Does Brian Hurst see Over There the same way as JE? As Robert Brown?

 

[Clancie]

Claus,

Did I say I have RA's book? Where? (I do have two by JVP, however, if you still need some quotes from him).

re: the "Other Side". Its possible that they could be legitimate mediums, but that what they "get" about the other side is filtered through their own preconceived ideas about death, God, religion, etc.

Personally, I think JE is quite right not to presume he really "knows" what its like.

 

[CFLarsen]

re: the "Other Side". Its possible that they could be legitimate mediums, but that what they "get" about the other side is filtered through their own preconceived ideas about death, God, religion, etc.

But that would make it impossible for anyone to trust anything a medium says. How can we know if what they tell us are their own ideas?

Personally, I think JE is quite right not to presume he really "knows" what its like.

Yeah. He's got enough to worry about...

Did I say I have RA's book? Where? (I do have two by JVP, however, if you still need some quotes from him).

So, you just believe me? Tsk, tsk...good thing I don't believe you:

Here is an extract of the log for today, not an hour ago (where the subject of the Bishop file came up):

68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:20:40 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 56492 ....."
68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:20:41 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 56491 ....."
68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:21:47 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 11743660 ....."
68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:22:24 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 56491 ....."
68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:22:25 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 56491 ....."
68.64.219.218 - - [03/Aug/2003:15:22:28 -0400] "GET /resources/bishop1.wav HTTP/1.1" 200 815691 .....

Clancie, guess what IP you post under at TVTalkshows?

68.64.219.218

Yup. The evidence is clear: You just downloaded it. Not "some time ago". There is no mention of that IP downloading the file before today.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

 

[Clancie]

Claus,

You do understand the words "different computer", right?

And, as long as we're on the topic of Bishop, of what possible value is a garbled audio file?

 

[CFLarsen]

Claus,

You do understand the words "different computer", right?

Yep, absolutely. That's why I checked the IPs you have posted under at TVTalkshows. No log of any of those re. the Bishop-file until today.

And, as long as we're on the topic of Bishop, of what possible value is a garbled audio file?

It's not "garbled". You can make out what he says. No, it's not CD quality, but I didn't claim it would be.

You, dear Clancie, is a liar. You did not listen to it "some time ago". You just downloaded it, today.

 

[Clancie]

Claus,

Call me a liar if you want. whatever. You will anyway.

But your audio file of Bishop doesn't show anything about the quality of his readings. Unless there's a way to get rid of the distortion at the listener's end, its unintelligible, Claus.

 

[CFLarsen]

Claus,

Call me a liar if you want. whatever. You will anyway.

I will only call you a liar when I can back it up with evidence. I did.

But your audio file of Bishop doesn't show anything about the quality of his readings. Unless there's a way to get rid of the distortion at the listener's end, its unintelligible, Claus.

Well, you downloaded it (today, not before that), and, as usual, you dismiss the evidence.

Why didn't you bring this up before, when you (claimed you) first listened to it? That is odd, don't you think?

 

[thaiboxerken]

JE doesn't "get" much about the "other side", and some other mediums get many specifics. Does that mean he's a fake? That they are? Maybe so.

Yes, they are fakes.



Or, hypothetically, could it just show that they have different strengths and abilities?

That would require belief, since there is no evidence to support the notion and it goes against scientific convention.

They are both entertainers.

 

[Loki]

Neofight,

Now that I don't really agree with, Loki. Who are these "plenty of mediums" who claim they can do things that JE says are not possible? You'll have to clarify that for me.

Sure - clarification is a good thing!

From Pyrrho's post of the LKL transcript :

(JE said) : And I can only speak for myself. I don't want to speak in broad strokes for every medium that's out there, of which there are many around the world that are equally as talented ...

This seems pretty clear cut to me - JE is specifically saying that his process, as far as he knows, is his process only - and that we should not be assuming the other mediums do it the same way. What's confusing about this? JE is telling you *not* to assume that any oither medium is using the same process as he is.

But I can give you a more concrete example if you wish - the Princess Diana seances on TV used a husband and wife as the mediums, and they used an process virtually identical to JE - except that they believed that it *is* possible to "influence" which spirit will come through. As far as I know, JE claims that he has *no control* over who comes through. A clear difference in process, between these mediums, I would think.

As far as I can tell from reading about George Anderson, and from watching James Van Praagh do readings on his show, "Beyond", the process is pretty similar from one medium to another...

Well, yes! But my point is that they are not "identical", which makes it difficult to establish boundaries of what is possible and not possible - each medium has a slightly different take on things.

Why does this matter? Does an inconsistency prove they lie? No - it simply makes it difficult to establish a viable method of testing, because the details matter when you are trying to establish reliable data.

Oh, and regarding the "receiving of letters" - there are two points really.

First, the thing about the "sheet music" was simply that if we believe JE then the "image" transferred to him obviously contained sufficient detail that he could recognise it as "sheet music", not as "newspaper". He saw details on the paper. If he didn't, then how did he know it was sheet music? He he *did* see details, then why can't the spirits makes one of the details be a 10 inch high letter "A"?

Second, JE gets "letter sounds" in virtually every second reading. "A 'T' or 'T'-sound" is a common JE phrase. Why not simply get the spirits to send a sequence of letter-sounds? Yes, I know the answer - JE is a passive receiver, he get whatever the "other side" chooses to send. So the question, according the JE, should be phrased as "Why don't the spirirts send a sequence of letter-sounds"? Answer? We don't know. The spirits are happy to send the occasional letter-sound, the spirits are happy to be trying to pass on "proof" of the after life to their relatives - but the spirits are not interesting in doing so in an unambiguous way. Those zany, wacky, fun loving spirits!

 

[thaiboxerken]

So the question, according the JE, should be phrased as "Why don't the spirirts send a sequence of letter-sounds"? Answer? We don't know. The spirits are happy to send the occasional letter-sound, the spirits are happy to be trying to pass on "proof" of the after life to their relatives - but the spirits are not interesting in doing so in an unambiguous way. Those zany, wacky, fun loving spirits!

I know the answer. It's because spirits are stupid, moronic and fools. It's not that they are playing "charades", "guess my name" or "what's this mean?" because they like to. No, they can't help but to play the games because they lack brainpower to put full sentences together. Yes.. spirits don't have brains, therefore they are stupid. I guess even spirits are limited by the material body, or lack there-of.

 

[neofight]

RA claims that nobody has diseases "Over There", so she agrees with SB on that one.

Now who wouldn't agree with that, Claus? If there is an afterlife, when we cross over, we leave this physical world behind, along with our used and then totally superfluous body, so of course there is no disease in the hereafter. .....neo

 

[Mike D.]

So the question, according the JE, should be phrased as "Why don't the spirirts send a sequence of letter-sounds"? Answer? We don't know. The spirits are happy to send the occasional letter-sound, the spirits are happy to be trying to pass on "proof" of the after life to their relatives - but the spirits are not interesting in doing so in an unambiguous way. Those zany, wacky, fun loving spirits!

I know the answer. It's because spirits are stupid, moronic and fools. It's not that they are playing "charades", "guess my name" or "what's this mean?" because they like to. No, they can't help but to play the games because they lack brainpower to put full sentences together. Yes.. spirits don't have brains, therefore they are stupid. I guess even spirits are limited by the material body, or lack there-of.

thaiboxerken,

What you say here reminded me of a statement Alan Gauld makes on page 9 of his book, Mediumship and Survival: A Century of Investigations. He writes: "...the notion of personal identity is a complex and elusive one, and some people would say that personal identity is logically as well as factually linked to bodily continuity, so that it makes no sense to talk of a person surviving the dissolution of his body. ... Another possiblity to be borne in mind -- one with which not a little of the evidencce could be squared -- is that there is survival, but survival only of a diminished and truncated something, capable of manifesting as a quasi-person in certain circumstances, but not ordinarily to be thought of as a person at all."

Mike

 

[Loki]

Mike D.

...there is survival, but survival only of a diminished and truncated something, capable of manifesting as a quasi-person in certain circumstances, but not ordinarily to be thought of as a person at all.

We touched on this the other day in another thread....just how *much* of me will remain in this diminished/truncated after-me? At JE seance time, it appears there is quite a bit - spirit-me has my 'life' memories, and even memories of things that have happened in the real world after I passed. I even retain my 'relationships' with both living and dead - although the emotional content of *all* relationships appears to have changed from the wide range available in life (hate, indifference, affection, love) to just love/peace. Yes, even people I loathed in life I appear to embrace affectionately in death.

Does spirit-me still follow the same sporting teams? Does spirit-me care who wins the Superbowl? Is spirit-me still interested in music? Does spirit-me write songs anymore? Is spirit-me still attempting to learn Japanese? If I reach the after life and I don't have any interest in sport, I don't care about music, I've stopped learning new skills, and my opinon of everyone has changed to "really, they're lovely!", then in what sense have *I* crossed over?