Interesting JE Hits....

[Loki]

Clancie,

Letters we use are symbols--symbols for sounds, nothing more. We take symbols for sounds, form them into words, and assign those abstract combinations of letters a meaning that we understand to represent something else. When you think about it, a written alphabet is quite a sophisticated and complex communication tool.

On the other hand, JE hears some sounds, sees some images, gets a physical feeling, and tries to piece together a meaning from it. Quite a different language "process", much less sophisticated than spelling words out

The basic, entire substance of JE is to establish the identity of the spirit. Since JE doesn't know who the sitter or spirit is (apparently), the pupose of *all* the communication is determine identity. Really, that's what it all boils down to - a question of identity. A person's name would be overwhelming evidence of identity. It's short, sharp and unambigous (well, unless your name is "John Smith" I suppose!). Names are letters, letters are symbols. Where's the problem? Oh, that's right - JE says there's a problem.

Numbers are fine, although apparently the spirits aren't interested in supplying unambiguous numbers like their last home phone number while they were alive - they'd rather send though "11" and have the sitter figure out if it's a month, a aday, an age, etc.

JE is saying "how" it works. He can't say "why" it works that way. The "why" (a) follows no observable logical pattern (it is full of inconsistencies and "special cases") and (b) is exactly the way a fraud would wish to to be. This seems to argue strongly against "the process" being credible, IMO.

 

[Instig8R]

Well, Loki,
Hot reading (and it would need to be research beyond what's in an obituary) could go far to "fill in the gaps" on many readings. But there's no evidence that JE hot reads on CO.

Even skeptics who've known people who worked on the show (Jim Underdown; Mark, who posts here), have not heard any rumors or suspicions from these people of hot-reading.

So...yes, so far that isn't a very viable explanation, imo.

Hi, Clancie! I acknowledge that there is no evidence that JE hot reads on CO. However, I take issue with your statement that hot reading doesn't happen because no one who worked on the show has come forward to report it. I believe I have previously demonstrated that a big staff is not required to gather information for hot reading.

I believe that one person, acting alone , (namely: JE), can easily find information on the internet for that occasional "special hit".

I also believe that the fact that JE will not insist upon an anonymous ticketholders system is highly suspicious.

If JE would merely switch to a system whereby the identity of 25% of ticketholders would not be known to him several weeks before appearing at the gallery, it would eliminate a major source of criticism. For some reason, he will not do so... and that makes me highly suspicious.

For the record, I feel very strongly that JE is mostly cold-reading. However, on many occasions, his readings improve when his subjects have a high profile on the internet (like the at-home readings he did for WTC families). Therefore, hot reading cannot be ruled out.

 

[neofight]

rofl, neo! That walk down memory lane was so much fun!

Yes, Clancie. I rather enjoyed it myself, not because I'm a mean-spirited person really, but because I really do abhor dishonesty, and I'm afraid that Claus was being dishonest.

And you were indeed right about the "sunny Sunday". I'm much impressed!

How about that, huh? A post written over a year ago, and I was able to remember about the "sunny Sunday". lol I guess my memory is not quite as bad as Claus would have everyone believe.

It looks like I'm getting better at searching through the threads, as well. .....neo

 

[neofight]

Captain? Do I know you?

Not really. I was just trying my own psychic abilities out on you, TLN. Why? Did I hit on something? Kind of like in "The Shining", when Scatman Crothers called Danny Torrence "Doc", huh?
......neo

 

[TLN]

Not really. I was just trying my own psychic abilities out on you, TLN. Why? Did I hit on something? Kind of like in "The Shining", when Scatman Crothers called Danny Torrence "Doc", huh?
......neo

Sorry, not buying it.

See you on PalTalk...

 

[neofight]

Neofight,

Isn't this the "final straw" ? Fron the JE website glossary:

Well, it appears that the spirits can send, unambiguously, numbers through to JE. I've never heard him talk about "an 'S' number...six, or seven?" It's *always* a precise statement - "what's the significance of the number '8'?"

So, apparently the rules of of JE mediumship include :

Rule 17, Subsection 11, Clause 9 : The 10 symbols used to represent the decimal counting system can be received clearly and without confusion. Sitter will then need to find the relevance of this recieved number, but the number itself is unambiguous.

Rule 22, Subsection 14, Clause 17 (Addendum 4A) : The 26 symbols used to represent the English alphabet cannot be received as a general rule. Occasional excepts will occur, but this is extremely rare.

Well, Loki. If you'd like, I can try to explain why I think JE might more easily get numbers, but not too many letters and/or words. Naturally, I cannot know this definitively, but since I have a fairly good idea of how mediumship works, at least JE's mediumship, I'll give it a try.

First off, I will type a short paragraph from "One Last Time", since it is sitting right here on my computer table. It deals expressly with numbers. JE does not explain why he gets numbers, but only that he does get them. Another reason I'm quoting from the book again is because I think it might annoy Instig8R. lol Anyhow, here it is......

("One Last Time" written by John Edward)

Spirits love to show me numbers. Barely a reading goes by without my seeing at least a couple, though their meaning is often vague. If I'm shown the number 7, for instance, it could mean something significant happened in July, the seventh month, or on the seventh of a month. Or even that it happened seven months ago or seven years ago. And there are times when it's not clear what that significant event is. It could be a birth. It could be a death. So the number will only be a small piece in the puzzle: it only has meaning when put together with other information.

Okay, that's all I can find in the book on numbers. Nothing too informative, I would agree.

So, you asked me for my own reasoning, Loki, and the only thing that comes to my mind that might explain why he might be able to get numbers, and not many words, would be because there are a lot fewer numbers than there are letters.

Now, hold on! I'm not finished yet. lol Let me explain. Okay, so if a spirit wanted JE to get a number, he could simply send that number image to JE, and he would be able to understand it instantly.

Don't forget, even if the number is "seven thousand, seven hundred and seventy-seven", all JE would have to grasp as he gets that quick thought would be 7777, as opposed to the same number in its written form. To me, it just seems as though it would be a lot easier to get numbers than words.

Now that is not to say that John can't get a single letter if they show him it. I'm sure he could get single letters and probably even short words, if that's how they gave it to him, but since he has often stated that his clairaudience is stronger for him than his clairvoyance, I'm assuming that is why he doesn't get all that much information in that way, although of course he has no problem with getting actual picture images.

Rule 26, Subsection 5, Clause 3 : Alphabet-based information such as names, will be received "clairaudiently" as a single syllable phoneticly sounded "audio-flash".

I don't believe that I've ever said that JE clairaudiently receives only words or names that consist of one syllable, Loki. Where did you get that, if you don't mind my asking? Are you making things up now?

Okay. You're prepared to use you reason and logic to examine JE readings and conclude that the hits are "too strong/frequent" to be cold reading, and that "editing", "warm/hot reading", "sitter error" and "sitter buy-in" are insufficient or unacceptable explanations to bridge the gap between cold-reading and JE_reading. But then you're prepared to "switch off" your logic and reason and accept that JE and the spirit world can exhange numbers freely and at will, but cannot exchange letters at all. It's your choice, but I can see *no* reason to accept the "number - yes/letters no" argument *except* that you've already decided it's true.

No, that is not accurate, Loki. I can accept the "number - yes/letters - no" argument because if I try to imagine what it might be like to actually do this mediumship stuff, I can see where getting a lot of written letters or words might just be a bit much for the brain to process as quickly as it would need to be processed.

Here's an idea! Since numbers are so clear and easy, why don't the spirits send JE numbers corresponding to letters?

JE : "I'm getting a male spirit 'above' you. And he's showing me a 2, and a 13 - that would be the letters 'B' and 'M'. The spirit's intiails are B. M."
Sitter : "Yes- I'm Brian Martin's daughter!!"

Tell you what, Loki. When you cross over, why don't you see if this can actually be done, okay? ......neo

 

[neofight]

Sorry, not buying it.

See you on PalTalk...

LOL TLN. Sorry, but I don't do "Paltalk". Anyhow, I was just teasing you. Didn't you used to use "Captain" in front of TLN? If you did, I believe that we exchanged a couple of posts back when tvtalkshows went down last year. I think you even came over to TVT once it was back up and running. Wasn't that you? I could be wrong......neo

 

[RC]

I am so glad I bought some beer before coming home.

I don't even know where to begin.

'g8r...I definitely have seen JE talk about "seeing" letters. And you're right that what Neo presented as "evidence" was from JE's book along with a "hope that clears things up". And a smiley face, which I thought was nice, we are friends after all.

Like you, I don't go with JE's word, particularly from his books. However, I simply don't have much evidence to offer to back up my opinion (which I still hold) that JE says quite often that he sees (not hears) letters. I can only state that this is my opinion, but I need to watch his show again to gather some evidence.

Also, I still think the blood "disorder" thing is kind of a big deal. I can't just go with "it's no big deal because it's JE's symbol and it doesn't even have to be accurate". It may very well be a symbol that includes HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, leukemia, and drug overdose. But it certainly isn't very specific and it includes 4 diseases that kill a lot of people, so why is it unreasonable to think that it's part of a cold reading strategy?

Finally, sorry Clancie, but I disagree with your opinion about JE's readings of people under 18. Yes, when he brings through an infant, he goes with illness, but when it's a teenager he very often brings up accidents. However, I wasn't talking about people under the age of 18 when I said that the diseases/conditions that fall in JE's "blood conditions" symbol affect young people. I was thinking more like ages 20-40. I'd like to know the leading causes of death of people in that age range and see where AIDS, hepatitis, leukemia, and drug overdose are.

 

[RC]

I think it would be very difficult for JE to be the only person involved in hot reading. But I don't think it would take anymore than 1 or maybe 2 others on the CO staff. There seems to be this belief that the entire staff would have to be aware of trickery.

I can see a scenario in which JE has 1 or 2 friends who he trusts and pays well to assist with hot reading in limited cases; giving us those "amazing" readings. He really only needs a handful of "special hits" per season to get people hooked. Look at me, I was hooked by just a handful of shows.

 

[neofight]

Re: Re: Re: Seeing Letters -vs- Hearing Letters

Hi, Neo! I'm all for accuracy! Perhaps I should have said that I don't know why you don't recall how frequently JE says he sees letters.

Well, I guess that you could go ahead and say it that way instead, Instig8R, but that still doesn't make your statement any more convincing or accurate than it was before, since it is only your impression that this occurs frequently, up against my impression that it's actually quite infrequent.

You are claiming that JE "gets" the letters through clairaudience, with very few exceptions. I do not understand how you can possibly make such a claim. I feel that you are minimizing the number of times that it actually happens, merely because you do not question what JE claims in his books.

Now that's crossing a line, and heading towards being a trifle insulting, Instig8R! I am going by my own recollections of what I see on the show, and I only copied the section of "OLT" that applied to this issue, for those who didn't have a copy of the book. I certainly didn't need to look up what JE said about how he gets people's names, since I've been watching the show for two years now.

In the meantime, I suggest that you start watching the show a bit more often and while you are at it, start keeping track of this type of thing, because I maintain that your impression is wrong, and that JE does not get all that many initials in the way that you have suggested he does. RC said that he was going to start watching more closely for this as well, and so will I. Start counting!

I feel that RC yielded the argument to you, because he had no evidence, but neither do you! You haven't supplied evidence to refute his argument, except to repeat a paragraph from JE's book, wherein he claims to hear letters clairaudiently. I do not consider JE's written explanation to be a good source of evidence.

That's a valid point. No one has to accept JE's word for it. I just wanted RC, and anyone else who was interested, to know what JE has said on the subject. I base my own claim on what I've seen on the show, and not on what JE has written in his book.

If you pay close attention to what JE is doing during gallery readings, you will notice that he seldom divulges the method of communication. For example, he mostly asks open-ended questions, like "Who has the 'J' name?". When something isn't validated, he will then go into further detail, and he will use his index finger to "write" the letter on an imaginary blackboard.

Right. And you claim you've seen him do this how many times, ballpark figure?

1. a few times
2. several times
3. very often
4. almost always

JE will also say that he is seeing a letter. In one reading, he even went so far as to tell the sitter that "they're putting a 'JO' over you".

Yes, you probably remember the "JO" being put over the woman because I believe I transcribed that particular reading. However, I am sticking to my guns, and maintaining that these instances are far and few between in the many, many readings that JE does.

And, let's not forget the famous line, "They're showing me 'AMA', which means the person acted 'against medical advice'."

That is in another category altogether, Instig8R. The "AMA" or American Medical Association logo is a symbol that is within JE's frame of reference. That has nothing to do with his getting names. It is a staple of his readings, letting him know, as you say, that someone had to have gone against medical advice and refused treatment or something.

I believe that JE wrote his off-the-wall explanation of being oriented towards hearing letters, rather than seeing letters, for a reason: It gives him more wiggle room. However, if you watch his performances with a critical eye, you will see that JE deviates from his "hearing" method a lot more often than you think. I am suggesting that you forget about what he wrote in his books, and simply watch him and listen to him.

And I'll repeat myself as well. I already do that, and have done it for two years. I believe that you're wrong.

Given that the CO readings are heavily edited, we really cannot know for sure how many times JE claims to "hear" letters or "see" letters. However, JE has demonstrated that he CAN receive written letter symbols during readings.

Given that getting the names of people is so very important, Instig8R, I question your assertion that the very part of the reading where names come through are edited out of the show. I also take issue with your claim that the CO readings are heavily edited, since you have no way of knowing that is the case. Simply stating it as a fact, does not make it one. .....neo

 

[SteveGrenard]

In response to RC's question regarding the leading causes of death by age groups visit:

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus.html

and an easier site to use might be the following:

http://www.disastercenter.com/cdc/

 

[Loki]

Neo,

JE does not explain why he gets numbers, but only that he does get them

Thanks for the confirmation - I wasn't aware of any JE supplied "why", and you've confirmed that there isn't.

So, you asked me for my own reasoning, Loki, and the only thing that comes to my mind that might explain why he might be able to get numbers, and not many words, would be because there are a lot fewer numbers than there are letters.

He can get any number between 1 and 31 *at least*, since that's the number of days in the longest month. He can't get two letters, being the spirits initials? You find "editing" and "hot reading" to be "hard to accept", but you find "there are more letter than numbers" as perfectly reasonable? Okay...

Now, hold on! I'm not finished yet. lol Let me explain.
...
To me, it just seems as though it would be a lot easier to get numbers than words.

Subtle shift of emphasis, Neo, but no one's mentioning "words". The comparison is 2 letters (initials) to two digits (a date greater than 9). You still want to claim that letters are "too hard" while numbers are "easy"?

Now that is not to say that John can't get a single letter if they show him it. I'm sure he could get single letters and probably even short words, if that's how they gave it to him, but since he has often stated that his clairaudience is stronger for him than his clairvoyance, I'm assuming that is why he doesn't get all that much information in that way, ...

Especially numbers. But you say he claims "clairaudience" is stronger than "clairvoyance? Only for letters/name, I would think. He seems to say "they are showing me..." far more than "they are telling me...". I stand to be corrected there, but it seems to me that the bread and butter of JE's statements are visual clues - "they're showing me moving boxes", "What's the connection with the white feather", "I'm seeing the Danielle Steele book", "They're showing me a tree being cut down" seem to be standard JE-style phrases. But I haven't researched this, so *perhaps* he's an audio kind of guy and I've simpy missed that.

...although of course he has no problem with getting actual picture images.

And what exactly is a letter? The letter "A" is just a glyph - an image with a predetermined, agreed upon meaning. You claim is that JE's process is "an exchange of symbols that have meaning, using symbols from JE's frame of reference". Letters are the absolute simplest expression of this. *Everything* else is more complicated, requiring "interpetation" by the sitter.

I don't believe that I've ever said that JE clairaudiently receives only words or names that consist of one syllable, Loki. Where did you get that, if you don't mind my asking? Are you making things up now?

Am I making things up? Yes! The entire "Rules of Mediumship" was a parody! But the details have some meaning. Did I literally mean that JE can and must receive *only* single syllables? No - I admit to using too narrow a term. He certainly seems to favour very short "audio" grabs though. He can't get "Ellen" - just the "L", with a weakness indicating "el", so he takes the snippet and expands to "Helen" or "Ellen" or "Elvira". Does it get only single syllables? Can't say for sure - but he rarely gets much more.

I can accept the "number - yes/letters - no" argument because if I try to imagine what it might be like to actually do this mediumship stuff, I can see where getting a lot of written letters or words might just be a bit much for the brain to process as quickly as it would need to be processed.

Again, no need to widen this to include "lots of letters" or even "words". If *every* JE reading began with JE bringing through a spirit, and then *immediately* identifying the initials you've have a hell of a lot stronger case. Just two letters, one after the other. Cold-reading would be dead in the water as an explanation. Do it live on LKL and "editing" is dead as an explanation. Do it 10 times in a row and guessing is off the menu. Do it for the JREF and hot reading vanishes from the equation. Hell, JE could settle this inside a week.

Neo, JE has an endless amount of time to do a reading. There's no "processing time" requirement. Could the spirits send through the Gettysburg Address? Probably not. Can the spirits send through a 2 digit number indicating "something significant"? Everytime ! (I've *never* seen JE stumble over a number - the number is always clear, its the "meaning" that is debated). Can the spirits send through 2 letters ? Nope. Not even close. Not even one, except under extremely rare circumstances.

Tell you what, Loki. When you cross over, why don't you see if this can actually be done, okay?

Neo, you have my word - if my death leads me to discover that JE is correct, I'll contact you and let you know "for sure". Just watch out for flickering lights!!

Let's try another tack - Neo, JE has build up over the course of many years of "seeing/listening" to spirits a "dictionary" of symbols and their meanings. Why doesn't he develop 26 symbols that relate to the letters of the alphabet? "An apple" for "A". "A ball" for "B". The spirit shows him an apple and a ball. Bingo, the initials of the spirit are "A" "B". What part of "the process" does this violate Neo?

1. Numbers - Okay, sure!
2. Images of boxes to indicate "moving" - No problem!
3. Letters - no, sorry.
4. Images to indicate letters - impossible!

Any theory of how "the process" explains these four conditions? "JE says the spirits don't want to...." seems to be about it.

 

[CFLarsen]

Man, I'm in the wrong time zone!

A bit busy this morning, so I'll just focus on a minor thing: If anyone wants the full threads (not just the snippet neo presented) of my purported dishonesty, they are available for inspection.

Carry on. This is great skepticism.

 

[juninho]

("One Last Time" written by John Edward)

Spirits love to show me numbers. Barely a reading goes by without my seeing at least a couple, though their meaning is often vague. If I'm shown the number 7, for instance, it could mean something significant happened in July, the seventh month, or on the seventh of a month. Or even that it happened seven months ago or seven years ago. And there are times when it's not clear what that significant event is. It could be a birth. It could be a death. So the number will only be a small piece in the puzzle: it only has meaning when put together with other information.

By heck, if that's not an admission to a cold-reading technique then I'll eat my hat.

 

[Ersby]

Perhaps neofight should spend a little time thinking about the process of cold reading. I’m not being facetious. I definitely think she needs to sit down and think it through. A cold reader needs to convince people that he (we’ll assume it’s a man) knows things about them that he couldn’t possibly know. Quite apart from clues from physical appearances, he needs to phrase his questions in a particular way so they sound specific but aren’t really, or at least can easily be stretched to something else. He needs to reduce the odds, and they way this is done isn’t obvious: it doesn’t leap out and make itself plain. Some of the tricks are very subtle indeed.

For example, when dealing with the death of a child or young person, a cold reader would probably not say (unless he’s fishing for a big hit, or unless the sitter is quite old) which gender it is. For older people, that’s fine. The odds are good enough that he can be specific and refer to male or female above. Young people don’t die so often, so with fewer chances, he doubles the odds and keeps it non-gender specific.

Another example, when guessing about pregnancies, a nice technique for cold readers would be to keep these guesses for female sitters. With a bit of luck (1 in 30 odds of a not visibly pregnant woman between 18-35 being pregnant) the sitter in question will be expecting. A nice big hit. Otherwise, there’s a good chance the sitter will know someone. “Congratulations on the baby” is a nice variation on the theme, since it extends the odds to include any recently born child.

Guessing about the size of a family is a bit tricky, but with a little leeway, it can be done. First, a cold reader would never ask if a sitter is “an only child”. They would say “Are you the only son” (or daughter). This increases the chances of a hit, while still sounding very accurate. And of course, “Is there three in the family?” could include parents or not, as the case may be. If the sitter has already established someone in the immediate family has died, then so much the better since the number of people in the family can include (or not) the deceased member too.

Some people have asked about what JE does with numbers of 12. I found a few examples.

-- Is this the 19th or the 19? Is it 1-9 or 9-1?(“No.”)
-- They're also telling me to tell you that the 14th of a month is significant. So I don't know if there's a birthday or an anniversary on the 14th. (unacknowledged)
-- OK, they're telling me acknowledge that the 18th of the month has some type of significance. Do you understand that? (“Yes.”)
-- She's also showing me my birthday, which is in October, so it's something symbolic to October for her, from what she's also acknowledging; all righty, so I don't know if there's a birthday -- I think it's around the 16th or the 6th, from what she's showing me. (“OK”) Write the date down. It's October -- it's around the 6th or the 16th. OK. It's the 10th month, and it's around the 6th. She's fine, and I feel like she's OK.

And numbers are a prime source of stretching, such as this example here:

-- and she's telling me to say to you 7. So I don't if July(the seventh month) is significant, the 7th of a month is significant or she was 7 when she passed. How old would she be now? (“Now she would be 10.”) Okay, and how old was she when she passed? (“6”) I need to talk about 7. So I leave it as the 7th Month July or the 7th of a month. Okay? (sitter nods head)

Regarding JE’s success with names, remember his hit rate with names on LKL is around the 40% mark, while on Crossing Over it’s up around 85-90%. That’s a big gap. Perhaps the CO studios are more conducive to psychic communication, or perhaps something is ending up on the cutting room floor.

Sometimes I think I may be coming across as a bit pompous: I do just a couple of half-decent readings and I’m an expert on cold reading. But I have been looking very closely at the transcripts of John at work for almost one year. I’ve made tallies, lists, cross references, and read and reread them, and some things simply don’t make sense. Why can’t he identify the gender of children? Why is the criteria for “family” so flexible? Why are accidents so often reduced to “an impact of some kind”? And the clustering of diseases and conditions around a theme may be entirely in keeping with the “process” of mediumship, but no one can deny it skews the odds in the psychics favour. Saying that names are heard clairaudiently does the same: it allows C and K names to be lumped together, and L names needn’t just be Lynda, Louise, etc, but can also include Ellen, Eileen and so on.

 

[Darat]

rofl, neo! That walk down memory lane was so much fun! And you were indeed right about the "sunny Sunday". I'm much impressed! Good to have a record of what we'd been asking Claus for...the three validations. Nothing for a week, then...Bingo! Gone and back with all three at once. Too funny.

(P.S. Claus, I read "OLT" in an afternoon and you know what you think of my brain power! Should be a snap for you to "finish the whole book"--or at least have read enough to find the answers, lol--in no time at all!)

Darat,

The claim we're making for "the process" is that all mental mediums use a combination of clairvoyance, clairaudience, and clairsentience. And that communication takes place telepathically, is difficult to do, and isn't just like sitting in a room talking with someone or showing videos of the family vacation.

Also that the images and sounds a medium hears are somehow being built from things he or she is already familiar with in his own experience. (Some of these he is shown so regularly with such consistency of meaning that JE has come to think of them as symbols that he can interpret confidently to the sitter).

Other mediums also work with a mixture of clairaudience, clairvoyance, and clairsentience. I don't see anything inconsistent in the examples given in this thread. All the mediums I can think of--Altea, GA, van Praagh, JE, and others--seem to consistently say that these are the three "tools" of mediumship, but that they rely on them to varying degrees.

I'm sorry, but I'm not getting your point. Could you be more specific about how you feel this explanation is inconsistent from one to the other?

Please see Neo's posts where she mentions process etc. That is not the claim she is making.

She makes a claim that there is a distinct process involved in mediumship and in fact she goes further to suggest that this is one way she can determine the “genuine” from the fake.

However the evidence is that, according to JE and other mediums, there is not a common process that would enable you to determine if someone is communicating with the dead or not.

 

[Darat]

Hi, Clancie! I acknowledge that there is no evidence that JE hot reads on CO. However, I take issue with your statement that hot reading doesn't happen because no one who worked on the show has come forward to report it. I believe I have previously demonstrated that a big staff is not required to gather information for hot reading.

I believe that one person, acting alone , (namely: JE), can easily find information on the internet for that occasional "special hit"....snip....

And I think it is wrong for believers to assume that when "hot reading" is put forward as an explanation it is being put forward as the explanation, it is simply an example of a theory that can account for “special hits”…

And as I have repeated many time Pete Popoff is a very good example of how not having "rumours" is not evidence that fraud is not taking place. PP had many collaborators - yet none came forward therefore there is proof that the repeated comment about "No one on his staff has come forward" or "No rumours.." is totally irrelevant and cannot be used in any way to support the belief the JE can communicate with the dead.

 

[RC]

Couple things:

Steve, thanks for sending those links. I had a quick look and saw that AIDS, suicide, and liver disease are in the top 10 for age 20-40, based on 1999 stats. Suicide isn't broken down so I can't find stats for overdose. And liver disease is broader than hepatitis but I'm going to go out on a limb and posit that hep would be a leading cause of liver disease for someone under the age of 40.

I don't see leukemia in the top 10, but I also don't know what a "malignant neoplasm" is. It that a fancy word for cancer?

Clancie is correct that accidents are the number one cause, but I just wanted to make the point that JE's "blood" symbol encompasses 4 major diseases/conditions that particularly affect youngish people.

Side question, maybe Neo knows the answer. JE is able to bring through suicides as a "their actions caused their own death". When he brings through someone who overdosed, does he both mention the "circulatory system" validation AND the "caused their own death"? I can't remember.

Also.....Neo, are you saying that JE gets the majority of all of his validations through clairaudience? Before I thought you were referring simply to names. But now it seems like you're saying that he is much more clairaudient than clairvoyant. I would disagree with this statement. His readings are almost entirely based on images. He doesn't "hear" numbers, and he always says "they're showing me..........". Am I reading your comments incorrectly?

 

[voidx]

I haven't bothered reading the ....counting..... 4 pages of posts since friday, but I'd like to comment on this reply from Neo about this post of mine here:

Again, seems like we're missing the start of this reading. Did he already establish that he was trying to communicate with the Father/Grandpa? If so, his use of the word "his" is hardly significant. Also look at the top, are there 2 unidentified females? At first they mention the tree in the backyard...then when JE reiterates the question, it changes to a tree in the cemetary. Is their backyard in the cemetary? What's going on here? Sorry, this just isn't clear to me. As it reads sure "you cut down "his" tree" seems impressive, but like most people, if they'd started out going...I wanna talk to daddy...then its not impressive in the least. I reserve judgement of this being a good hit until a full transcript can be provided, sorry.

Here's Neo's reply:

Well, it's always preferable to read the whole transcript, voidx, but this still would appear to be a pretty good hit.

Who knows why the sitter's initial comment mentioned the tree in the backyard. It's possible that they had just removed a tree, but when John repeated his statement, emphasizing that it was his tree, the sitters then realized that it was the tree in the cemetery that John had to be referring to, because it was directly related to their loved one.......neo

I really see this as quite a large bit of inconsistency. You agree its preferable to get the whole transcript. Yet even taking my point that its really quite unobjective and impossible to judge this reading because certain things aren't clear, and the use of "his" cannot be taken as impressive as we don't know for sure whether this was already known by JE, you still take it as a pretty good hit. I just don't see how you can objectively do that. I'm almost 100% positive we don't have the first few verbal interactions of this particular reading, which in my opinion, should make it near impossible for someone to label it a pretty good hit. We just don't know. As for the second part, reread my one post about it. This is exactly what I'm talking about, its a technique that can be used by JE. Ask a question, "oh my tree at home", well ok that's nothing significant for JE, so he reiterates the question, hoping they'll think again and give him more of a lead, "yah yah, the one by his plot in the cemetary, they cut it down", ahhh now that is something he can work with. Again, you have to acknowledge that while you think the sitter is merely remembering correctly after reiteration from John, that it also can be taken as John reiterating to get information that is actually useful to him, for IMO cold-reading.

 

[RC]

...and notice that JE doesn't start getting anything specific until AFTER he is told that the tree was in the cemetary. Then suddenly, JE starts talking about how the tree was how visitors would find the grave.

It's possible that this is just how mediumship works. JE got a symbol about cutting down a tree and once the sitters got him on the right track, then spirit showed other images to help confirm that they got it right.

But it also seems to me like this could be cold reading: JE tosses out something, sitters verify and provide more details, then he turns those details around, adds a little more, and tries for a more "special hit", while creating the impression that he was the one who knew that the tree was in a cemetary.