Insulting Ad about Nurses by Johnson and Johnson

[truethat]

I answered this several times. No one has cited any evidence that nurses are any more or less superstitious than any other group of similar professionals. Lots of people are superstitious.

That's not what I wrote. You seem to have a habit of inserting "insults" into statements when they are not there. I did not say nurses are more or less superstitious than any other group.

The fact is, that across the board for everyone the majority of people have some sort of "superstitious" beliefs, be it astrology, religion, good luck charms or karma.

Nurses are no different. You are the minority in your beliefs yet you want an ad to represent your personal views as the overall view of nursing.

MOST NURSES like MOST PEOPLE do have these beliefs. The ad reflected the reality of Nurses. Just because it's not your personal view doesn't make it offensive to nurses. It's just offensive to you personally.

If you want to complain about that for personal reasons I think most people here would agree with you. But you trying to make it into something more is what is unrealistic.


It would be no different if a Muslim nurse complained that the ad was offensive because it showed a "good luck charm" instead of the Qu'ran, or a Catholic saying the ad was offensive because it didn't use a rosary.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do you have anything more than your stereotyped opinion of the nursing profession to support your assertion? Your opinion is not consistent with my 35 years of experience in the profession. I find that nurses fall across a continuum. There's a point on that continuum where what I can best describe as blue collar nursing changes to professional nursing.

You seem to be under the impression the entire field of college degreed (BSN and above) nurses who work in some of the most technical and advanced nursing fields are about the same as the basic nurses are. You have adopted that media image the Nurse Advocacy organization is trying to combat.

Your posts reflect an example of the damaging results of the media image.

 

[truethat]

Do you have anything more than your stereotyped opinion of the nursing profession to support your assertion? Your opinion is not consistent with my 35 years of experience in the profession. I find that nurses fall across a continuum. There's a point on that continuum where what I can best describe as blue collar nursing changes to professional nursing.

You seem to be under the impression the entire field of college degreed (BSN and above) nurses who work in some of the most technical and advanced nursing fields are about the same as the basic nurses are. You have adopted that media image the Nurse Advocacy organization is trying to combat.

Your posts reflect an example of the damaging results of the media image.

This made me seriously laugh out loud.


No several very good friends of mine are nurses. One is a pediatric nurse. RNs not nurses aids or the like. And they ALL BELIEVE IN GOD. And btw when the one works with little babies who are sick she prays for them.


I'm kinda shocked SG are you deliberately not trying to understand it?


REALITY

MOST NURSES BELIEVE IN GOD. Period the end. Why? Because most PEOPLE believe in God.

Do you deny this? Do you deny that the majority of Nurses believe in some sort of superstition be it religion or good luck?


I mean come on now, it's just gotten silly at this point.

 

[John Albert]

The argument whether real-life nurses are generally more or less superstitious is kind of irrelevant, besides being difficult to prove either way without conducting a series of elaborate sociological studies.

Several people in this thread have shared their interpretations of the ad and also acknowledged how by a stretch we can understand what you are saying and how you COULD come up with that interpretation but that it doesn't seem the intention of the ad makers.

What message are they trying to convey with this ad?

Are they trying to say that superstition is a desirable trait?

That it's an inherent condition of being human?

That juggling belief "in the power of science and medicine" along with irrational superstitions like luck charms somehow helps nurses in their ability to do their job?

How about this interpretation:

I really don't think the idea is to promote superstition. There's a very strong popular feeling in the United States that the medical establishment is cold and unfeeling, and this ad is clearly (to me, anyway) intended to combat that misconception.

Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies are often maligned as being cold, logical and materialistic, more concerned with technology, protocols and profits over the well-being and feelings of patients. Medical people use a lot of technical terminology that most folks find inscrutable. The doctor is the arrogant, wealthy "bad guy" who coolly, dispassionately delivers awful news to patients and their families. Doctors are also maligned simply for knowing more than most patients do about their own health situation, and some people feel that represents a "loss of control" over their own bodies. "Big Pharma" is often portrayed and seen as a powerful cabal of faceless corporations that cynically exploit the suffering of human beings in order to turn a profit. These sentiments hurt the credibility of the medical industry. They're precisely the kinds of feelings that SCAM promoters ply on to peddle their nonsense.

This ad is meant to show that medical professionals really do care about the people they're treating. I think they chose a nurse for this ad because nurses are, more than any other healthcare pros, sort of the "human face" of the medical establishment. Whereas doctors may consult with patients for only a few short minutes at a time and then issue orders for others to follow, hospital nurses see the patients every day on a one-to-one basis. They give comfort, administer the medicines, and generally bridge the gap between the science and the humanity of the healthcare industry.

I think the shamrock is meant as a symbol, supposed to represent hope. Of course the advertisers might have used a crucifix, a Star of David, a Hamsa, or any other amulet, but religious types might deem that offensively exclusive, and anyway it's sort of beside the point. The idea being that hope may be irrational and unscientific, but after all the science is done, the critical decisions have been made and medical actions taken, hope is the only thing people have left to find comfort in. I think the ad is meant to show that nurses care not only about the specifics of their jobs, but also about the patients they see every day, and after they've done the hard work, they still put in that little extra bit of heart to offer hope for the patients' recovery.

That's what I get out of it. I understand the derision about the good luck charm, but to me it means that the nurse may use science in her job, but she doesn't let it get in the way of her compassion for her patients or her respect for their personal beliefs.

 

[truethat]

The argument whether real-life nurses are generally more or less superstitious is kind of irrelevant, besides being difficult to prove either way without conducting a series of elaborate sociological studies.




What message are they trying to convey with this ad?

Are they trying to say that superstition is a desirable trait?

That it's an inherent condition of being human?

That juggling belief "in the power of science and medicine" along with irrational superstition somehow helps nurses in their ability to do their job?

How about this interpretation:

I really don't think the idea is to promote superstition. There's a very strong popular feeling in the United States that the medical establishment is cold and unfeeling, and this ad is clearly (to me, anyway) intended to combat that misconception.

Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies are often maligned as being cold, logical and materialistic, more concerned with technology, protocols and profits over the well-being and feelings of patients. Medical people use a lot of technical terminology that most folks find inscrutable. The doctor is the arrogant, wealthy "bad guy" who coolly, dispassionately delivers awful news to patients and their families. "Big Pharma" is the powerful cabal of faceless corporations that cynically exploit the suffering of human beings in order to turn a profit. These are the kinds of feelings that SCAM promoters ply on to peddle their nonsense.

This ad is meant to show that medical professionals really do care about the people they're treating. I think they chose a nurse for this ad because nurses are, more than any other healthcare pros, sort of the "human face" of the medical establishment. Whereas doctors may consult with patients for a few short minutes at a time and then issue orders for other to follow, hospital nurses see the patients every day on a one-to-one basis, they give comfort, administer the medicines, and generally bridge the gap between the science and the humanity of the healthcare industry.

I think the shamrock is meant as a symbol, supposed to represent hope. Of course the advertisers might have used a crucifix, a Star of David, a Hamsa, or any other amulet, but religious types might deem that offensively exclusive, and anyway it's sort of beside the point. The idea being that hope may be irrational and unscientific, but after all the science is done, the critical decisions have been made and medical actions taken, hope is the only thing people have left for comfort. I think the ad is meant to show that nurses care not only about the specifics of their jobs, but also about the patients they see for every day, and after they've done the hard work, they still put in that little extra bit of heart to offer hope for the patients' recovery.

I agree, as it seems do most people on the thread. But SG is suggesting that there is a danger of an unintended message that suggests Nurses are superstitious.

The funny thing is that she seems to think this is a false representation. I'm trying to point out to her that it is an ACCURATE representation. It just doesn't represent HER beliefs.

http://nursing.advanceweb.com/Regional-Articles/Features/Respecting-Religious-Diversity.aspx

"We believe in addressing the whole person: mind, body and spirit, and so much of the healing that occurs in the hospital setting is related to the individual's spiritual well-being." That's how Kathleen Penzes, MN, RN-BC, NEA-BC, executive director of women's services and nursing administration at St. Joseph Hospital of Orange, described the facility's mission of care, adding that "even though we're a Catholic organization, we look at religion not so much as conformation with an organized body of beliefs, but as part of the spiritual nature of human beings."



PART OF THE MISSION: At St. Joseph Hospital of Orange, information about spirituality and ethics is incorporated into nursing orientation, and it's reviewed every year. Here, Kathleen Penzes, MN, RN-BC, NEA-BC (left), reviews patient information with Teresa Servin, NA, and Angela Pagnanelli, RN. courtesy Jason Wallis Photographer, Wallis Photo LLC Honoring Spirituality

 

[CaveDave]

Do nurses have a media image problem? Consider the following examples:

Nurses and the Media: The Center for Nursing Advocacy

Heroes, Whores and Handmaidens: 3rd Annual Golden Lamp Awards Rank Best and Worst Media Portrayals of Nursing in 2005


I would like to point out, the issues described above are not about a direct obvious media message. The problem is about the unspoken messages.


-

No time now to go into your sources, but your excerpts seem almost anecdotal in nature, mostly opinion, with little data or demonstration of measurable real-world effects.

It was the polite thing to do rather than just ignoring it.

Alright.

See the post above I was writing while you wrote this one.

Thanks.

See my response to your PM. You may re-post it here if you desire.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No time now to go into your sources, but your excerpts seem almost anecdotal in nature, mostly opinion, with little data or demonstration of measurable real-world effects.



Alright.



Thanks.

See my response to your PM. You may re-post it here if you desire.

Cheers,

Dave

My PM reply had a tad more politics than is thread related so I'll leave them private. I have no problem with you posting my reply and you are welcome to post it here with a reply as well, but I just thought it went off topic.


As for the evidence being all anecdotal, no, it is not. What kind of hard data would you like to see?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....
How about this interpretation:

I really don't think the idea is to promote superstition. There's a very strong popular feeling in the United States that the medical establishment is cold and unfeeling, and this ad is clearly (to me, anyway) intended to combat that misconception.

Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies are often maligned as being cold, logical and materialistic, more concerned with technology, protocols and profits over the well-being and feelings of patients. Medical people use a lot of technical terminology that most folks find inscrutable. The doctor is the arrogant, wealthy "bad guy" who coolly, dispassionately delivers awful news to patients and their families. Doctors are also maligned simply for knowing more than most patients do about their own health situation, and some people feel that represents a "loss of control" over their own bodies. "Big Pharma" is often portrayed and seen as a powerful cabal of faceless corporations that cynically exploit the suffering of human beings in order to turn a profit. These sentiments hurt the credibility of the medical industry. They're precisely the kinds of feelings that SCAM promoters ply on to peddle their nonsense.

This ad is meant to show that medical professionals really do care about the people they're treating. I think they chose a nurse for this ad because nurses are, more than any other healthcare pros, sort of the "human face" of the medical establishment. Whereas doctors may consult with patients for only a few short minutes at a time and then issue orders for others to follow, hospital nurses see the patients every day on a one-to-one basis. They give comfort, administer the medicines, and generally bridge the gap between the science and the humanity of the healthcare industry.

The ad is part of a bigger campaign by J&J to promote nursing. It is not about softening the science of medicine in the public's view.

J&J has explained the ad campaign in defense of criticism by the Nurse Advocacy organization who complained the campaign, which includes several different ads, continues to reinforce the idea nursing is not a science.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This made me seriously laugh out loud.


No several very good friends of mine are nurses. One is a pediatric nurse. RNs not nurses aids or the like. And they ALL BELIEVE IN GOD. And btw when the one works with little babies who are sick she prays for them.


I'm kinda shocked SG are you deliberately not trying to understand it?


REALITY

MOST NURSES BELIEVE IN GOD. Period the end. Why? Because most PEOPLE believe in God.

Do you deny this? Do you deny that the majority of Nurses believe in some sort of superstition be it religion or good luck?


I mean come on now, it's just gotten silly at this point.

So your evidence is, you know a couple nurses?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I agree, as it seems do most people on the thread. But SG is suggesting that there is a danger of an unintended message that suggests Nurses are superstitious.

The funny thing is that she seems to think this is a false representation. I'm trying to point out to her that it is an ACCURATE representation. It just doesn't represent HER beliefs.

http://nursing.advanceweb.com/Regional-Articles/Features/Respecting-Religious-Diversity.aspx

I can only guess there is something too subtle about the difference between my position and your straw man that keeps you repeating the straw man.

The issue is not about nurses. It is about the nursing profession and the science of nursing.

Nursing is a science. I imagine that is not something a lot of people are fully aware of. If putting a good luck charm from an unconscious patient's pocket into the patient's hand were a nursing intervention, it would need to be based on research that such a measure was an effective intervention.

 

[truethat]

I can only guess there is something too subtle about the difference between my position and your straw man that keeps you repeating the straw man.

The issue is not about nurses. It is about the nursing profession and the science of nursing.

Nursing is a science. I imagine that is not something a lot of people are fully aware of. If putting a good luck charm from an unconscious patient's pocket into the patient's hand were a nursing intervention, it would need to be based on research that such a measure was an effective intervention.

Sorry sweetie, the ad campaign is trying to attract NURSES. It's not about teaching people nursing techniques or the science of nursing.

I think you are the one that is creating the straw man here. Anyway bored.

 

[truethat]

So your evidence is, you know a couple nurses?

Isn't that your argument? Haven't you been saying throughout that in your 35 years as a nurse?


No the evidence is that the majority of people believe in god, spirituality, superstition etc etc etc.

The ad is aiming to represent nurses. So your point is dead on it's feet.

You keep talking about things that have nothing to do with the ad. And refusing to answer direct questions.


Seems like you are trying to "win" the discussion instead of looking at it realistically.

No matter if you don't like it, the majority of Nurses are represented by the ad.

Sorry you feel left out and want to ruin it for everyone else. Carry on.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry sweetie, the ad campaign is trying to attract NURSES. It's not about teaching people nursing techniques or the science of nursing.

I think you are the one that is creating the straw man here. Anyway bored.

You again repeat a straw man. There is not much disagreement in the thread as to J&J's intended message.

Unintended messages occur in advertisements all the time. Sometimes intended messages are purposefully obscured. I have posted links to more information on this issue.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Isn't that your argument? Haven't you been saying throughout that in your 35 years as a nurse?

35 years, vs you know two nurses?

I've worked as a nurse in many completely different settings from public health to ICU, in 4 different states. I have returned to nursing programs in college 3 times, so I've also worked in nursing from that first job in a 35 bed rural hospital with my 2 yr degree to my current private practice as a nurse practitioner with an MSN. I have been active politically in the nursing profession and contributed to changing the definition of nursing in this state. I think that is a tad more than, I know a couple nurses.

 

[CaveDave]

It's not a personal attack. It's a fact which is why you are not answering it.

Is it not true that the majority of nurses in the United States DO have some sort of "superstition" whether that be religious or otherwise? The ad is an accurate reflection of nurses.
This is true. I've pointed it out to you several times and you just keep ignoring it and cherry picking evidence in a way that is a confirmation bias.

You state that your complaint with the ad is that it gives the impression that nurses use science and superstition when treating patients.

The fact is THEY DO. Just because you don't you think the ad is invalid. But that's not true at all.


Most people I know have great respect for nurses. The profession might not get the attention that they deserve, but that's because that is what their job entails.

It's like asking for teachers to get more respect for teaching, or cops more respect for being cops. If your job is to nurse and you get paid buckets of money to do so, and you chose this as a profession, what more do you need?

Nurses are paid very well. That is one way that society demonstrates respect. Compare the salary of nurses with the salaries of fire fighters and cops, who put their lives on the line every day?

Good pay, appreciation in their line of work. Also many people do not like being in a hospital. And so although they appreciate nurses the fact is most people don't encounter nurses unless they are having a medical emergency. This might contribute to the reason why there is a sort of overlooking of them.

Even doctors see their patients outside the hospital for checkups and whatnot. Usually the assistant in the office is not a nurse.

There are logical ways to discuss the issues with regard to nursing. You just seem to want to make an issue of it.

Shrug, I guess you have an axe to grind as a nurse.

Engineers, Automotive Technicians, Facility Maintenance Technicians, etc. are often considered dirty, drooling, single-syllable semi-morons, too (I have been all three, and more), but are more often highly skilled, professional, EXPERTS in making the "wheels of society" able to turn. I don't let it bother me; if someone thinks they can do without them, they may find out the HARD way.;

That's not what I wrote. You seem to have a habit of inserting "insults" into statements when they are not there. I did not say nurses are more or less superstitious than any other group.

The fact is, that across the board for everyone the majority of people have some sort of "superstitious" beliefs, be it astrology, religion, good luck charms or karma.

Nurses are no different. You are the minority in your beliefs yet you want an ad to represent your personal views as the overall view of nursing.

MOST NURSES like MOST PEOPLE do have these beliefs. The ad reflected the reality of Nurses. Just because it's not your personal view doesn't make it offensive to nurses. It's just offensive to you personally.

If you want to complain about that for personal reasons I think most people here would agree with you. But you trying to make it into something more is what is unrealistic.


It would be no different if a Muslim nurse complained that the ad was offensive because it showed a "good luck charm" instead of the Qu'ran, or a Catholic saying the ad was offensive because it didn't use a rosary.

My impressions, too.

Do you have anything more than your stereotyped opinion of the nursing profession to support your assertion? Your opinion is not consistent with my 35 years of experience in the profession. I find that nurses fall across a continuum. There's a point on that continuum where what I can best describe as blue collar nursing changes to professional nursing.

You seem to be under the impression the entire field of college degreed (BSN and above) nurses who work in some of the most technical and advanced nursing fields are about the same as the basic nurses are. You have adopted that media image the Nurse Advocacy organization is trying to combat.

Your posts reflect an example of the damaging results of the media image.

I wonder if you are having your view of the Forest blocked by some inconveniently placed nearby Trees.

I think you are well read on Psychosocial topics, and wonder if it has occurred to you that sometimes a person can be so invested in a topic that their perceptions can be warped by the "gravity" of the subject?

Clinical detachment is sometimes a Good Thing.

This made me seriously laugh out loud.


No several very good friends of mine are nurses. One is a pediatric nurse. RNs not nurses aids or the like. And they ALL BELIEVE IN GOD. And btw when the one works with little babies who are sick she prays for them.


I'm kinda shocked SG are you deliberately not trying to understand it?


REALITY

MOST NURSES BELIEVE IN GOD. Period the end. Why? Because most PEOPLE believe in God.

Do you deny this? Do you deny that the majority of Nurses believe in some sort of superstition be it religion or good luck?


I mean come on now, it's just gotten silly at this point.

Made me wonder...

The argument whether real-life nurses are generally more or less superstitious is kind of irrelevant, besides being difficult to prove either way without conducting a series of elaborate sociological studies.



What message are they trying to convey with this ad?

Are they trying to say that superstition is a desirable trait?

That it's an inherent condition of being human?

That juggling belief "in the power of science and medicine" along with irrational superstitions like luck charms somehow helps nurses in their ability to do their job?

How about this interpretation:

I really don't think the idea is to promote superstition. There's a very strong popular feeling in the United States that the medical establishment is cold and unfeeling, and this ad is clearly (to me, anyway) intended to combat that misconception.

Doctors and the pharmaceutical companies are often maligned as being cold, logical and materialistic, more concerned with technology, protocols and profits over the well-being and feelings of patients. Medical people use a lot of technical terminology that most folks find inscrutable. The doctor is the arrogant, wealthy "bad guy" who coolly, dispassionately delivers awful news to patients and their families. Doctors are also maligned simply for knowing more than most patients do about their own health situation, and some people feel that represents a "loss of control" over their own bodies. "Big Pharma" is often portrayed and seen as a powerful cabal of faceless corporations that cynically exploit the suffering of human beings in order to turn a profit. These sentiments hurt the credibility of the medical industry. They're precisely the kinds of feelings that SCAM promoters ply on to peddle their nonsense.
This ad is meant to show that medical professionals really do care about the people they're treating. I think they chose a nurse for this ad because nurses are, more than any other healthcare pros, sort of the "human face" of the medical establishment. Whereas doctors may consult with patients for only a few short minutes at a time and then issue orders for others to follow, hospital nurses see the patients every day on a one-to-one basis. They give comfort, administer the medicines, and generally bridge the gap between the science and the humanity of the healthcare industry.

(Adding for completeness and fairness: They also have to know and use procedures and techniques that the MDs might not even know about, because the Nurses job is different ffrom the MDs; not just "assistant", but a separate profession.)

I think the shamrock is meant as a symbol, supposed to represent hope. Of course the advertisers might have used a crucifix, a Star of David, a Hamsa, or any other amulet, but religious types might deem that offensively exclusive, and anyway it's sort of beside the point. The idea being that hope may be irrational and unscientific, but after all the science is done, the critical decisions have been made and medical actions taken, hope is the only thing people have left to find comfort in. I think the ad is meant to show that nurses care not only about the specifics of their jobs, but also about the patients they see every day, and after they've done the hard work, they still put in that little extra bit of heart to offer hope for the patients' recovery.

That's what I get out of it. I understand the derision about the good luck charm, but to me it means that the nurse may use science in her job, but she doesn't let it get in the way of her compassion for her patients or her respect for their personal beliefs.

Yep.

I agree, as it seems do most people on the thread. But SG is suggesting that there is a danger of an unintended message that suggests Nurses are superstitious.

The funny thing is that she seems to think this is a false representation. I'm trying to point out to her that it is an ACCURATE representation. It just doesn't represent HER beliefs.

http://nursing.advanceweb.com/Regional-Articles/Features/Respecting-Religious-Diversity.aspx

Quote:
"We believe in addressing the whole person: mind, body and spirit, and so much of the healing that occurs in the hospital setting is related to the individual's spiritual well-being." That's how Kathleen Penzes, MN, RN-BC, NEA-BC, executive director of women's services and nursing administration at St. Joseph Hospital of Orange, described the facility's mission of care, adding that "even though we're a Catholic organization, we look at religion not so much as conformation with an organized body of beliefs, but as part of the spiritual nature of human beings."



PART OF THE MISSION: At St. Joseph Hospital of Orange, information about spirituality and ethics is incorporated into nursing orientation, and it's reviewed every year. Here, Kathleen Penzes, MN, RN-BC, NEA-BC (left), reviews patient information with Teresa Servin, NA, and Angela Pagnanelli, RN. courtesy Jason Wallis Photographer, Wallis Photo LLC Honoring Spirituality

On a side note, the Hospital where I worked (keeping the technical machinery running safely) was part of that outfit. It was owned and operated by "The Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange", and the nuns wore full habits (penguins), but every one of them were highly educated in Nursing Science.

The other staff and doctors sometimes seem to think of our department as Porters and floor cleaners, but every job had it's place, and deserves respect.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[truethat]

35 years, vs you know two nurses?

I've worked as a nurse in many completely different settings from public health to ICU, in 4 different states. I have returned to nursing programs in college 3 times, so I've also worked in nursing from that first job in a 35 bed rural hospital with my 2 yr degree to my current private practice as a nurse practitioner with an MSN. I have been active politically in the nursing profession and contributed to changing the definition of nursing in this state. I think that is a tad more than, I know a couple nurses.

Great, I'm going to only ask one more time. If you don't answer or twist it yet again it's clear then that you are just avoiding the direct answer because you don't want to admit you are wrong.


In all your years of experience dealing with other nurses in all these places, please state your opinion of the percentage of nurses that did not believe in some sort of spiritual, religious, superstitious or karmic type belief?

Is it your assertion that the majority of nurses with whom you engaged did NOT have some sort of belief like those?

 

[truethat]

Engineers, Automotive Technicians, Facility Maintenance Technicians, etc. are often considered dirty, drooling, single-syllable semi-morons, too (I have been all three, and more), but are more often highly skilled, professional, EXPERTS in making the "wheels of society" able to turn. I don't let it bother me; if someone thinks they can do without them, they may find out the HARD way.;



My impressions, too.



I wonder if you are having your view of the Forest blocked by some inconveniently placed nearby Trees.

I think you are well read on Psychosocial topics, and wonder if it has occurred to you that sometimes a person can be so invested in a topic that their perceptions can be warped by the "gravity" of the subject?

Clinical detachment is sometimes a Good Thing.



Made me wonder...



(Adding for completeness and fairness: They also have to know and use procedures and techniques that the MDs might not even know about, because the Nurses job is different ffrom the MDs; not just "assistant", but a separate profession.)



Yep.





On a side note, the Hospital where I worked (keeping the technical machinery running safely) was part of that outfit. It was owned and operated by "The Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange", and the nuns wore full habits (penguins), but every one of them were highly educated in Nursing Science.

The other staff and doctors sometimes seem to think of our department as Porters and floor cleaners, but every job had it's place, and deserves respect.

Cheers,

Dave

I think I'd have more respect for the argument if it was about the way the nurse is presented as not being a separate profession.


It's interesting to watch "clinical detachment" get wound up in a hissy fit while the argument being presented is that Nurses are scientific.

 

[CaveDave]

My PM reply had a tad more politics than is thread related so I'll leave them private. I have no problem with you posting my reply and you are welcome to post it here with a reply as well, but I just thought it went off topic.

Agreed.

As for the evidence being all anecdotal, no, it is not. What kind of hard data would you like to see?

Mostly as in what portion of people viewing that message would ACTUALLY have their preconceptions changed by it, and the proportion of positive to negative shift, in each of the possible scenarios (Yours vs Theirs)

Also, would making the message say what you wanted have any measurable benefit, in real world terms, to the Profession as a whole.

All trials done as randomized, doubly-blinded, with control groups.
As many variables controlled possible, with good sample size.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[Prometheus]

Agreed.


Mostly as in what portion of people viewing that message would ACTUALLY have their preconceptions changed by it, and the proportion of positive to negative shift, in each of the possible scenarios (Yours vs Theirs)

Also, would making the message say what you wanted have any measurable benefit, in real world terms, to the Profession as a whole.

All trials done as randomized, doubly-blinded, with control groups.
As many variables controlled possible, with good sample size.

Cheers,

Dave

Given that this ad is part of large, high-profile campaign, likely produced by an experience professional ad agency at the behest of a large deep pocket corporation with its own reputation to defend, I'd be surprised if J&J hasn't researched the issue and collected exactly the data you're looking for.

I think its likely that they know just how many people are likely to interpret the ad in each of the ways that participants in this thread have done.

I think the message SG is worried about is present, but that it's likely the case that both the charm and the tag line only serve to reinforce communication of J&J's intended message.

Consider: The opening of the ad shows a highly skilled nurse actively participating in the saving of a man's life, while her voice over extols the virtue of science in nursing. This opening scene, we know because of links SG has provided above, falls outside the common media portrayal of nurses, and likely outside the perception of a large swath of the general population (who, incidentally, are statistically quite likely to believe in a variety of woo).

The ad is showing them an unfamiliar and, unfortunately, surprising (to them) view of nurses. In order to communicate this core message to these people, some sort of credibility needs to be developed, and it needs to be done within just a few seconds of video footage.

I submit that the charm and the tag line, "But I also believe in Stacking the Deck," does exactly that. The presence of this line, will, for most people, have exactly the opposite effect of the one that SG is worried about. Instead of reinforcing the popular misconception which it represents, it will actually anchor the ad's core message--it's opposite--in the minds of those who already hold that misconception, by sympathizing with their current belief.

The worrisome message is there, but it's actually been put to use to subvert itself.

 

[CaveDave]

Given that this ad is part of large, high-profile campaign, likely produced by an experience professional ad agency at the behest of a large deep pocket corporation with its own reputation to defend, I'd be surprised if J&J hasn't researched the issue and collected exactly the data you're looking for.

Makes sense.

I think its likely that they know just how many people are likely to interpret the ad in each of the ways that participants in this thread have done.

That's reasonable.
Anyone up for smuggling out a copy?

I think the message SG is worried about is present, but that it's likely the case that both the charm and the tag line only serve to reinforce communication of J&J's intended message.

I suspect the same.

Consider: The opening of the ad shows a highly skilled nurse actively participating in the saving of a man's life, while her voice over extols the virtue of science in nursing. This opening scene, we know because of links SG has provided above, falls outside the common media portrayal of nurses, and likely outside the perception of a large swath of the general population (who, incidentally, are statistically quite likely to believe in a variety of woo).

Yes.

The ad is showing them an unfamiliar and, unfortunately, surprising (to them) view of nurses. In order to communicate this core message to these people, some sort of credibility needs to be developed, and it needs to be done within just a few seconds of video footage.

I submit that the charm and the tag line, "But I also believe in Stacking the Deck," does exactly that. The presence of this line, will, for most people, have exactly the opposite effect of the one that SG is worried about. Instead of reinforcing the popular misconception which it represents, it will actually anchor the ad's core message--it's opposite--in the minds of those who already hold that misconception, by sympathizing with their current belief.

Interesting, I hadn't seen that "double reverse" but it could happen, IMHO.

The worrisome message is there, but it's actually been put to use to subvert itself.

If it works, more the better. Cool.

Cheers,

Dave