Inside the Truther Mind

[JohnG]

The big problem I have with this analogy, aside from your implicit psycho-analysis concluding that I'm dysfunctional, is that Mr. A's belief system is based on logic and pragmatism, while Mr. B's is based on nothing more than fear. I don't live in fear. I'm not paranoid. They aren't out to get me. They're out to get everyone.

For the record, I wasn't trying to brand you as crazy or even dysfunctional, but after rereading my post I understand why you'd see it that way, so I apologize. I'm guessing that if you searched hard enough, almost everyone has some sort of phobia. I chose astraphobia for my example not because it is irrational (unlike, say a fear of lint, or something), but precisely because there actually is some justification for a fear (or at least healthy respect) of it. I'd say the same thing for a fear of heights, bees, any number of things. The thing I was trying to get at is being struck by lightning is a real (albeit remote) possibility. I believe that some sort of LIHOP/MIHOP scenario is also a real possibility, but that it is orders of magnitude less likely than the chances of being struck by lightning. So just as I feel there's no need to take any actions to prevent myself from being struck by lightning on a sunny day, I find it even less necessary to take any actions to conduct a new investigation into 9/11.

When my father died in 1992, he left me an estate with investments that I had to learn how to manage.

Similar to what I said to JihadJane regarding her relatively reasonable views on 9/11 conspiracies, I hope the irony hasn't escaped you that there are people who'll sincerely believe that since you are relatively wealthy, that you are part of the machine they are raging against and ultimately no different than Bush or Rockefeller? Now, I don't believe that, but I've been unemployed for almost a year and I'm down to my last two grand, with unemployment due to expire in a few weeks, so wealthy people who do the whole "sure I'm rich, but I'm not rich rich" shtick aren't going to get a lot of sympathy out of me.

So this is the ideological framework for my skepticism of who is ultimately responsible for 9/11. I don't believe we live in a pluralistic world, I think the world is more or less controlled and we merely have some illusion of freedom.

Slight derail, but it is relevant so I beg the court's indulgence: One of my favorite TV shows of all time is The Prisoner. The hero, "Number 6" certainly had reason to believe he was in a hopeless situation, constantly being watched and harassed, even tortured. The thing about him, though that makes him a hero was that he kept fighting, kept trying to escape. There were other, more subtle and less overtly heroic things he did like staying in good physical shape (several episodes show him exercising) and making an effort to befriend other villagers. Sure, he'd be disappointed by them time and time again, either they'd double cross him, or they'd be too weak to help themselves or him. But the thing is, he kept on trying and didn't give in to despair and pointless cynicism (even though most would argue that he was justified in being cynical in his case). Maybe the most interesting thing about the show was when we learn the identity of Number One, the person who ran the village. I won't go into that in case you haven't seen the show, but let's just say the real arch enemy in most people's lives isn't some far away despot or Big Brother-type government entity. The person who causes you the most pain is quite literally the last person you'd suspect. BTW, the show is being remade as a miniseries this year. If they really want to bring it fully up to date, Number Six won't try to actually escape and will instead spend all of his time on some web forum complaining about his hopeless fate.

I would disagree on the simple basis that since many are unhappy with the quality of the original investigation, and that since so much is at stake, it's far more important to get at the truth. We can spend millions on a real investigation, or hundreds of billions on war, not that I'm convinced an investigation run by the criminals themselves would amount to anything.

You'll always find people who are unhappy with any decision or outcome. There are mothers who are dead certain it couldn't possibly have been their perfect angel of a son who is serving a life sentence for murdering a clerk in a botched convenience store robbery and demand a new investigation. They aren't going to get any help though, not even from the son's own defense attorney unless the Mother can actually (and here's the important part) first provide some evidence that the convicted felon is innocent or that the original court case was in some way flawed. Sure, this may sound unfair as far as the Mother is concerned, but does it really sound unfair in principle?

If I'm nothing but a crazy person on a forum, then what do you propose I do in the real world? You tell me what I should do. I'm utterly powerless. The only influence I have is on the people around me. How do you proceed to convince people of something you can hardly fathom exists yourself? It's not so easy.

Again, I don't think you are crazy, though I personally feel some of your fears and suspicions are at the very least exaggerated. Even if you are right though, maybe you can't fight city hall, but (to evoke another hoary cliche), maybe it isn't whether you win or lose, but how you play the game?

 

[JohnG]

Nominated.

Well, geez, thanks very much. If I had known someone were going to do that, I would have proofread it a little better.

 

[Tippit]

I'm perfectly serious. You yourself say that these beliefs are unfathomable. They are also unfalsifiable, in that any contradictary evidence can be explained away as being another cog in the conspiracy machine.

There is plenty of falsifiable evidence with regard to my previous post. It's just suppressed, and not acknowledged by the mainstream media. Do some research on the Rockefeller clan starting with David Rockefeler and the Reece Committee.

If a hypothesis is unfalsifiable, that means that a world in which the hypothesis is true looks exactly the same as a world in which it is false. In that case, you can easily live your life as if it were false. Even if it were, in fact, true you would never know the difference.

So, why not do that? Wouldn't it make life easier?

I have no doubts what-so-ever that if I didn't believe what I did, my life would be far easier, and I would be a lot happier. My problem, apparently unlike other people, is that I can't just simply choose to not believe what I already know is true.

 

[Tippit]

Similar to what I said to JihadJane regarding her relatively reasonable views on 9/11 conspiracies, I hope the irony hasn't escaped you that there are people who'll sincerely believe that since you are relatively wealthy, that you are part of the machine they are raging against and ultimately no different than Bush or Rockefeller? Now, I don't believe that, but I've been unemployed for almost a year and I'm down to my last two grand, with unemployment due to expire in a few weeks, so wealthy people who do the whole "sure I'm rich, but I'm not rich rich" shtick aren't going to get a lot of sympathy out of me.

Part of the MO of the elite super rich banking clans is to polarize people in virtually every way possible, class included. Essentially you have the unfathomably wealthy and powerful trying to persuade the abjectly poor that the middle class are their enemy, and it works.

Slight derail, but it is relevant so I beg the court's indulgence: One of my favorite TV shows of all time is The Prisoner. The hero, "Number 6" certainly had reason to believe he was in a hopeless situation, constantly being watched and harassed, even tortured. The thing about him, though that makes him a hero was that he kept fighting, kept trying to escape. There were other, more subtle and less overtly heroic things he did like staying in good physical shape (several episodes show him exercising) and making an effort to befriend other villagers. Sure, he'd be disappointed by them time and time again, either they'd double cross him, or they'd be too weak to help themselves or him. But the thing is, he kept on trying and didn't give in to despair and pointless cynicism (even though most would argue that he was justified in being cynical in his case). Maybe the most interesting thing about the show was when we learn the identity of Number One, the person who ran the village. I won't go into that in case you haven't seen the show, but let's just say the real arch enemy in most people's lives isn't some far away despot or Big Brother-type government entity. The person who causes you the most pain is quite literally the last person you'd suspect. BTW, the show is being remade as a miniseries this year. If they really want to bring it fully up to date, Number Six won't try to actually escape and will instead spend all of his time on some web forum complaining about his hopeless fate.

I'm not sure whether you're comparing this fictional character with me or not, but I'm not complaining. You asked me why I'm not doing more. My answer is, the only thing I can do is to attempt to persuade people to consider my argument. I'm not the type who enjoys ridicule or derision, so I'm not about to stand in front of government buildings with a placard.

You'll always find people who are unhappy with any decision or outcome. There are mothers who are dead certain it couldn't possibly have been their perfect angel of a son who is serving a life sentence for murdering a clerk in a botched convenience store robbery and demand a new investigation. They aren't going to get any help though, not even from the son's own defense attorney unless the Mother can actually (and here's the important part) first provide some evidence that the convicted felon is innocent or that the original court case was in some way flawed. Sure, this may sound unfair as far as the Mother is concerned, but does it really sound unfair in principle?

No, it's not unfair. The principle of evidentiary-based trials by jury is what protect us all.

Again, I don't think you are crazy, though I personally feel some of your fears and suspicions are at the very least exaggerated. Even if you are right though, maybe you can't fight city hall, but (to evoke another hoary cliche), maybe it isn't whether you win or lose, but how you play the game?

Life is a game, and we're all players. One of the aspects of human nature that the NWO is counting on, is that we're all so focused on maximizing the results of the game for ourselves, that we sell out the rest of society in the process. It's hard to worry about far-fetched conspiracies if you're hustling for your next meal. I have the time, money, and curiosity to research subjects that most people will never touch on, and that's why I'm in the position I'm in.

 

[JohnG]

Part of the MO of the elite super rich banking clans is to polarize people in virtually every way possible, class included. Essentially you have the unfathomably wealthy and powerful trying to persuade the abjectly poor that the middle class are their enemy, and it works.

Human beings have never needed any help when it comes to polarizing "us" vs. "them". Any time there's even a subtle imbalance of power, you're going to see resentment on one side and disdain on the other. You don't need a conspiracy theory to explain that. It's just good old fashioned human nature.

I'm not sure whether you're comparing this fictional character with me or not, but I'm not complaining. You asked me why I'm not doing more. My answer is, the only thing I can do is to attempt to persuade people to consider my argument. I'm not the type who enjoys ridicule or derision, so I'm not about to stand in front of government buildings with a placard.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is The Prisoner is one of the coolest TV shows ever and I honestly think you'd like it. You can watch it for free on AMCTV.COM.

No, it's not unfair. The principle of evidentiary-based trials by jury is what protect us all.

Thank heavens that's settled. Want to go get a beer?

Life is a game, and we're all players. One of the aspects of human nature that the NWO is counting on, is that we're all so focused on maximizing the results of the game for ourselves, that we sell out the rest of society in the process. It's hard to worry about far-fetched conspiracies if you're hustling for your next meal. I have the time, money, and curiosity to research subjects that most people will never touch on, and that's why I'm in the position I'm in.

Yes, life is nasty, brutish and short, but not as much as it used to be. Utopia I'm sure would be a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there...assuming such a thing is even possible. You'd have to get everyone to agree what a Utopia should look like, for starters.

 

[aggle-rithm]

There is plenty of falsifiable evidence with regard to my previous post. It's just suppressed, and not acknowledged by the mainstream media.

All right, then. If the Fed were not the supreme instrument of usury, did not operate against the public trust, and if it were not directly responsible for the inflation tax, how would you know? What would that look like?

 

[aggle-rithm]

I have no doubts what-so-ever that if I didn't believe what I did, my life would be far easier, and I would be a lot happier. My problem, apparently unlike other people, is that I can't just simply choose to not believe what I already know is true.

I am a firm believer that, when faced with an unpleasant fact over which I have no control, it's better not to dwell on it. Death is a good example. I can buy life insurance and make sure my wife is taken care of in case something happens to me, but other than that I choose not to think about it.

It's not a matter of belief. It's about choosing your battles. Life is too short to spend all your time banging your head against a wall.

ETA: Yes, I do recognize the irony...