Information on Protocol for Pavel Ziborov Applicant

[GzuzKryzt]

Why is Pavel not allowed to bring observers?

@Sparhawk: In all of the protocols I have read in the MDC section the results were revealed after the entire test had been completed. I simply hope the JREF has very good reasons to abandon a well-working procedure. I brought this up before in the other thread.

 

[RemieV]

Because this will more than likely take place in a room more like a classroom than a lab. The observers would be *in* the testing room, and that is simply too many people who might either intentionally or unintentionally interfere with the testing.

Pavel specifically stated that he needs the envelopes to be opened as soon as he announces his response. That is why it is in the protocol as such.

 

[pavel_do]

Why is Pavel not allowed to bring observers?QUOTE]

Because this will more than likely take place in a room more like a classroom than a lab. The observers would be *in* the testing room, and that is simply too many people who might either intentionally or unintentionally interfere with the testing.

Pavel specifically stated that he needs the envelopes to be opened as soon as he announces his response. That is why it is in the protocol as such.

To be honest I cant understand it.. is that to make me more stressed by being in environment where I am alone and surrounded by only JREF members and volunteers?? That creates extra stress for me to be honest.. plus Only JREF allowed video taping, meaning what ever happened there its all in the hands of JREF. NO whiteness. I am not saying it to avoid testing I am just saying it cause that the way I feel, the test in the small lab, I am not finding good reason, why don't we do in in a bigger one? Just finding it weird and purposively complicating.. Can at least some one be there “for me”?? if its not some one who I know very well, can it be at least Startz who helps negotiate protocol? I will pay his tickets if I will be able to and if he will be able to attend it. I am human being and even simply psychology works on me, when you suppressed by all conditions and even cant have even 1 person in room who will be on “your side” that really not helping to be calm. Nevertheless again.. I am not sayng it to avoid testing.

YES I want envelopes to be open immediately, just that I don't want results board to be on my eye sight.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Because this will more than likely take place in a room more like a classroom than a lab. The observers would be *in* the testing room, and that is simply too many people who might either intentionally or unintentionally interfere with the testing.

I assumed you might say that.

However, Pavel should be allowed to have observer/s of his chosing in the immediate testing area to allow for control of the process.
I would consider that an important accomodation, because it would not create - in Pavel's words: extra stress.

Both sides should focus on optimal test conditions to ensure an optimal result.

Pavel specifically stated that he needs the envelopes to be opened as soon as he announces his response. That is why it is in the protocol as such.

That would be one step towards optimal test conditions.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
YES I want envelopes to be open immediately, just that I don't want results board to be on my eye sight.

Why would you want the envelopes to be opened immediately if you can not see the results board?

 

[pavel_do]

Why would you want the envelopes to be opened immediately if you can not see the results board?

Well I want it to be open immediate as I have stated from day one cause when I hold envelope I am trying foresee what will I see when it will be revealed, so I need to see actual picture.. not YES or NO answer.... and I don't want see result board, cause I don't want to be destructed as my brain will be counting Hits and Misses, plus lines, squears etc.. So I prefer not too..

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Well I want it to be open immediate as I have stated from day one cause when I hold envelope I am trying foresee what will I see when it will be revealed, so I need to see actual picture.. not YES or NO answer.... and I don't want see result board, cause I don't want to be destructed as my brain will be counting Hits and Misses, plus lines, squears etc.. So I prefer not too..

I see.

Have you done trial runs with this exact test set-up?

 

[pavel_do]

I see.

Have you done trial runs with this exact test set-up?

I have done trials with pairs obviously, but not the exact way it was proposed by JREF.. cause they changed it a bit and take different set up, but any way..my “job” is to see what the photo is.. and how its all passed to me with what names and stuff that is different story..

 

[Crundy]

Can the room not contain the tester, Pavel, a JREF cameraman, and Pavel's cameraman? 4 shouldn't be too many for one room.

 

[Roma]

RemieV, I read that if Pavel gets 67% correct it will be considered a win. Isn't that pretty low?

 

[Startz]

RemieV, I read that if Pavel gets 67% correct it will be considered a win. Isn't that pretty low?

My calculation is that the probability of winning by chance is 0.00043686, roughly 1 chance in 2,000.

This will, of course, be checked by a JREF consultant, as RemieV mentioned in her posting in the challenge section

 

[Roma]

Thanks Startz, I learn something new everyday.

 

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wagg
Folks, I'm going to step in here.

This protocol has been going on forever. It seems like Pavel keeps trying things and then failing, and people are trying to modify the test so that he has a chance of winning. This is NOT what the challenge is about. The claimant should have a clear claim and confidence that he can accomplish what he claims before he applies.

RemieV recently went over a protocol with me that looked like it might be workable, and then I see here that ANOTHER one has been proposed and Pavel likes it. Now we're essentially back to square one.

It is now incumbent upon Pavel, who I admit seems sincere, to state what he can do and allow us to test it. It seems that he applied way before he was ready, and now the JREF is expending too many resources to try to make something work.

There are other applicants waiting.

The JREF will accept one more full protocol from Pavel (with Startz's kind help, if he's willing) and then we will move on to another candidate.
_____________________________________________________________________

SO TRANSPARENT!!!!!

Seems like Jeff LIKES to pull a fast one on the Applicants in this manner. It's obviously not fair! Seems like this guy is trying, but now Jeff Wagg threatens to kick him off just like he did with my Claim.

Edited by Darat: 

Off topic comments regarding moderation removed.

Discussing Moderation issues in threads outside the Forum Management section is not allowed, if you do this again your entire post will be removed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[steenkh]

Seems like Jeff LIKES to pull a fast one on the Applicants in this manner. It's obviously not fair! Seems like this guy is trying, but now Jeff Wagg threatens to kick him off just like he did with my Claim.

Edited by Darat: 

Off topic comments regarding moderation removed.

Please explain why the JREF needs to go through all this trouble with applicants who seem incapable of stating a clear claim? They have been very obliging with Pavel because he seems sincere (compared to certain others, which will be off-topic to discuss here), but why should they do endless negotiations with him?

You can hardly call it "pulling a fast one", when you note for how long these negotiations have been going on. It is only reasonable that they draw a line.

 

[EHocking]

Originally Posted by Jeff Wagg
....
_____________________________________________________________________

SO TRANSPARENT!!!!!

Seems like Jeff LIKES to pull a fast one on the Applicants in this manner. It's obviously not fair! Seems like this guy is trying, but now Jeff Wagg threatens to kick him off just like he did with my Claim.

Edited by Darat: 

Off topic comments regarding moderation removed.

Talk about quote mining.

That was posted on 27th August 2008, 11:54 PM.

Unlike you, Pavel was always genuinely committed to participating in the Challenge and as such received a great deal of support from Forum members in helping iron out a protocol that suited his claim and suited him.

The latest post, 2 days ago, from RemieV demonstrates both the willingness and the honesty of both parties in concluding Pavel's Challenge application.

 

[Startz]

>snip_____________________________________________________________________

SO TRANSPARENT!!!!!

Seems like Jeff LIKES to pull a fast one on the Applicants in this manner. It's obviously not fair! Seems like this guy is trying, but now Jeff Wagg threatens to kick him off just like he did with my Claim.

Edited by Darat: 

Off topic comments regarding moderation removed.

This is just offensive. JREF is actively engaged in negotiations with Pavel, with some intermediary work on my part. This is a matter of public record. We have sometimes had several email exchanges on a single day. While the protocol is probably messier than anyone wants, I expect that the evident good will on both sides will result in a test agreement in the near future.

 

[The Professor]

Won't happen! The JREF with the help of the rest of you will destroy this before you ever have to risk the Million. You ALWAYS DO
Why the THREAT from WAGG? He loves throwing his weight around saying ..."This is your Last Chance" ... It's just obvious.
You are right !!!!!... This guy is really trying yet he has to deal with these threats.
I feel his pain

 

[EHocking]

Won't happen! The JREF with the help of the rest of you will destroy this before you ever have to risk the Million. You ALWAYS DO

Wrong.

As evidenced by the people who HAVE been tested for the MDC.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

Pavel and The Professor have nothing in common. Pavel is trying to work out something, but having trouble (which seems to be fixed.) The Professor never tried.

 

[The Professor]

Pavel and The Professor have nothing in common. Pavel is trying to work out something, but having trouble (which seems to be fixed.) The Professor never tried.

I disagree! I still want to take the challenge. I think that you are making Pavel jump through hoops that he doesn't need to. He is honestly trying.
He has filled out the application and notorized it. That takes a lot of work.
He sent it in.
He got a Media Presence somewhere. Not that easy.
Then he got someone to be an Academic and write something good for him.
That takes effort too.
Then he worked out an acceptable a Claim. That takes some doing.
He's tried to work with those on the Forum. Remarkable.
Now the Protocol .... Is that where this is now?
All of this seems to take a lot of time and effort.
Good Job Pavel !!!!!!!!
We do have a lot in common.
I commend you.