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IndoctriNATION movie

marplots said:
I had a chance to watch the 30-minute, YouTube version. I agreed with nearly all of the points, except my conclusion was the opposite - I wanted almost everything they identified as flaws in the public school system.

It seems the major premise is that only the Christian faith is able to instill a moral code and the ills of modern society stem from a lack of instilling this code. That bit I found disagreeable, not because I don't think it might work like that, but because I don't think the moral code in question is particularly valuable. To me, not only don't Christians have a strong moral code, but the thing they are selling isn't worth having for the price.

I wonder sometimes if Christians actually read the New Testament. Jesus was quite the radical, living a very extreme philosophy. Not at all like the Christians I know. Even such basic moral imprecations to give what you have away to the poor, or trust God for all your immediate needs - even those are flagrantly ignored in favor of the same rush to consumerism most of us participate in. Frankly, it's embarrassing, the disconnect.

Jesus wept.
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I am a Christian, and I agreed with you.
 
Resume said:
Once again, the 83% of Americans that are christian are being persecuted by the 17% who ain't.

It's a juggernaut I tell ya.

Oh shut up.
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There are cases where minorities oppress majorities. Saddam's Iraq is just one example.
 
sphenisc said:
That's what Mary Queen of Scots said!
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marplots said:
I wonder sometimes if Christians actually read the New Testament. Jesus was quite the radical, living a very extreme philosophy. Not at all like the Christians I know. Even such basic moral imprecations to give what you have away to the poor, or trust God for all your immediate needs - even those are flagrantly ignored in favor of the same rush to consumerism most of us participate in. Frankly, it's embarrassing, the disconnect.

Jesus wept.
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Its because you don't understand his meaning. Giving all you have to help the poor is about the best one can do, it shows the kind of heart that is willing to sacrifice all. Just because most aren't willing or able to do that doesn't mean they aren't building treasure in heaven.

Some that I know have tried this and ended up being a burden on others. So once again Jesus is talking about where a persons heart is, Get it?

What most of you are usually missing is you think the Bible is all or nothing. God gives grace in many areas, you'll never understand him until you understand grace and forgiveness.
 
logger said:
Its because you don't understand his meaning. Giving all you have to help the poor is about the best one can do, it shows the kind of heart that is willing to sacrifice all. Just because most aren't willing or able to do that doesn't mean they aren't building treasure in heaven.

Some that I know have tried this and ended up being a burden on others. So once again Jesus is talking about where a persons heart is, Get it?

What most of you are usually missing is you think the Bible is all or nothing. God gives grace in many areas, you'll never understand him until you understand grace and forgiveness.
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Fwiw this is not what my pastors teach. This is not across the board belief.
 
logger said:
Its because you don't understand his meaning. Giving all you have to help the poor is about the best one can do, it shows the kind of heart that is willing to sacrifice all. Just because most aren't willing or able to do that doesn't mean they aren't building treasure in heaven.

Some that I know have tried this and ended up being a burden on others. So once again Jesus is talking about where a persons heart is, Get it?

What most of you are usually missing is you think the Bible is all or nothing. God gives grace in many areas, you'll never understand him until you understand grace and forgiveness.
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Do you understand grace? Can you explain it?
 
logger said:
Its because you don't understand his meaning. Giving all you have to help the poor is about the best one can do, it shows the kind of heart that is willing to sacrifice all. Just because most aren't willing or able to do that doesn't mean they aren't building treasure in heaven.

Some that I know have tried this and ended up being a burden on others. So once again Jesus is talking about where a persons heart is, Get it?

What most of you are usually missing is you think the Bible is all or nothing. God gives grace in many areas, you'll never understand him until you understand grace and forgiveness.
Click to expand...

I think there is a huge collision between what Jesus taught in the Gospels and how Paul interpreted and expanded it. I rather prefer Jesus.
 
Fudbucker said:
Yeah, I'm just pointing out that being a majority in a country doesn't protect you from oppression.
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Christians are a well-protected majority in the U.S. However, they are having to make minor concessions with regard to basic human rights which seems to piss them off.
 
logger said:
What most of you are usually missing is you think the Bible is all or nothing. God gives grace in many areas, you'll never understand him until you understand grace and forgiveness.
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Where was God's grace when Jesus asked Him to take away the cup filled with death by torture?

Followed by grim silence. Because God, for some crazy reason, thought Jesus' death by torture was a prerequisite to forgiveness of sin. A rank non sequitur.

So Jesus was tortured to death for a non sequitur.

Or so we are to believe.
 
marplots said:
I think there is a huge collision between what Jesus taught in the Gospels and how Paul interpreted and expanded it. I rather prefer Jesus.
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You don't believe Jesus was working through Paul? He did blind him on the Damascus road. You don't think Jesus would have not blinded him again or got his attention if he wasn't serving in the name of Christ?
 
Toontown said:
Where was God's grace when Jesus asked Him to take away the cup filled with death by torture?
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He also said your will father not mine.
Followed by grim silence. Because God, for some crazy reason, thought Jesus' death by torture was a prerequisite to forgiveness of sin. A rank non sequitur.
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No, his death had to be a blood sacrifice, the reason it HAD to be blood (animal sacrifice and Jesus's death) was because of how serious sin is. Gods rules, take it up with him.
So Jesus was tortured to death for a non sequitur.

Or so we are to believe.
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No, Jesus lost his human life to save the world. He gave his life to save you!
 
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logger said:
He also said your will father not mine.


No, his death had to be a blood sacrifice, the reason it HAD to be blood (animal sacrifice and Jesus's death) was because of how serious sin is. Gods rules, take it up with him.


No, Jesus lost his human life to save the world. He gave his life to save you!
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Yeh? Got any evidence for *any* of that?
 
logger said:
You don't believe Jesus was working through Paul? He did blind him on the Damascus road. You don't think Jesus would have not blinded him again or got his attention if he wasn't serving in the name of Christ?
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I am not in a position to say what Jesus would or should have done.

The mismatch isn't unique to me. Here are a couple sites where the problem is discussed:
Let us be clear from the outset. The messages of Jesus and Paul were fundamentally different. Reconciliation of their messages cannot be done by harmonization. This is a fact we must accept. No one is helped by attempts to lessen the differences by declaring that the gospel is a salvation story for both Jesus and Paul. The differences remain.
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(http://doctrine.org/jesus-vs-paul/)

And...
It is not exaggerating to say that evangelicalism is facing a crisis about the relationship of Jesus to Paul, and that many today are choosing sides. (video) I meet many young, thinking evangelicals whose "first language" is Jesus and the kingdom. Yet despite the trend, perhaps in reaction to it, many look to Paul and justification by faith as their first language.
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(http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/december/9.25.html)
 
logger said:
He also said your will father not mine.


No, his death had to be a blood sacrifice, the reason it HAD to be blood (animal sacrifice and Jesus's death) was because of how serious sin is. Gods rules, take it up with him.


No, Jesus lost his human life to save the world. He gave his life to save you!
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Why would an omnipotent and omnipresent being who is love incarnate need to offer himself as a blood sacrifice to himself to do something he apparently wants to do?

Sacrifice entails an offering to a higher power - if God is all powerful, why the charade of the sacrifice, and if not - who is he sacrificing too?
 
Border Reiver said:
Why would an omnipotent and omnipresent being who is love incarnate need to offer himself as a blood sacrifice to himself to do something he apparently wants to do?

Sacrifice entails an offering to a higher power - if God is all powerful, why the charade of the sacrifice, and if not - who is he sacrificing too?
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My son asked these questions of his Sunday school teacher who couldn't answer them. Neither could any of our four pastors. It falls under "the mystery of God". Just like why wearing clothes was such a horrible sin that every human born after has to be punished for it.

Turns out, if you're raised in the faith you apparently know better than to ask this stuff. I wasn't, so we did.
 
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