Ed Indictment in Breonna Taylor case.

They do not make allegations about the packages inspected by the USPI that contradict the USPI. They make no statement about the content of the packages.

U.S. Postal Inspector: “There’s no packages of interest going there”.

The police, in the paragraph of the warrant referring to the packages “Mr. J Glover may be keeping narcotics and/or proceeds from the sale of narcotics at [Breonna Taylor’s home] for safe keeping.”

Either the police failed to disclose what the postal inspector determined about the packages, or are somehow too incompetent to bother to find out the basic facts of the case they’re supposedly investigating.

Pick your poison.
 
These are hardly normal times though. Even ignoring the police usual conflicted motivations, any document release has the potential for a wider political impact just now.
The problem, though, is that not releasing documents *also* carries the risk of wider political impact.

I haven’t in my life found the police to be massively untrustworthy but I’m talking from a pretty privileged situation (white, middle class, more or less middle aged). Cops have actually cut me some slack a couple of times. That’s my frame of reference. Other groups have massively different interactions with the police, so have a completely different frame of reference. Kind cops and cruel cops are sometimes the same ******* cops.

NOT cool to shoot any of them except in self-defense.
 
U.S. Postal Inspector: “There’s no packages of interest going there”.

The police, in the paragraph of the warrant referring to the packages “Mr. J Glover may be keeping narcotics and/or proceeds from the sale of narcotics at [Breonna Taylor’s home] for safe keeping.”
They didn't say anything about the contents of the packages though.

Either the police failed to disclose what the postal inspector determined about the packages, or are somehow too incompetent to bother to find out the basic facts of the case they’re supposedly investigating.

Pick your poison.
They didn't claim there was anything illicit in the packages. You are adding that in.
 
What Louisville is doing is well outside the norm in terms of clamping down on information. Maybe now that her family has settled that case and one cop charged they will do a document dump. It's not normal to have this little information 6 months after an incident. I don't particularly doubt Walker, I just hate to see police trying to withhold information from the people who pay their salaries. Accountability or at least a decent attempt at it can sometimes affect public reaction.

This is one situation where I think the US could take something of value from the English judicial system. In England even a legitimate shooting by the police would result in a coroners court enquiry into the circumstances of the death (as are all 'unnatural deaths e.g. RTA). The police involved would be called to give evidence under oath. The postal inspector could be called. Documents would have been made available. The families lawyer, or the judge on behalf of the family could put questions to the supervising officer etc. The jury would return a verdict likely justified homicide. The coroner could issue and the jury could recommend certain actions be taken by the police to prevent similar circumstances occurring in future. All this in a public court. The problem with Grand juries (which is surprising in the US) is that they are secret. In general the process of justice should be open not secret.

If every police fatal shooting was subject to judicial review (and equally every fatal shooting of a police officer) I think improvements in policy would have happened. It also makes it easier to amend law as judicial recommendations can be seen as less political and so easier to gain bipartisan support than if they are brought forward by one party. (I realise that the US has politicised its judicial system, unlike the rest of the common law world, so this is less true in the US.)
 
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They didn't say anything about the contents of the packages though.

They didn't claim there was anything illicit in the packages. You are adding that in.

Here’s that section of the warrant in full:
Affiant verified through a US Postal Inspector that Jamarcus Glover has been receiving packages at [Breonna Taylor’s home]. Affiant knows through training and experience that it is not uncommon for drug traffickers to receive mail packages at different locations to avoid detection from law enforcement. Affiant believes through training and experience, that Mr. J Glover may be keeping narcotics and/or proceeds from the sale of narcotics at [Breonna Taylor’s home] for safe keeping.
https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/louis...cle_f25bbc06-96e4-11ea-9371-97b341bd2866.html

It’s three sentences in a single paragraph.

The police were obviously alleging that packages being sent to Breonna Taylor’s were tied to narcotics.

To claim otherwise displays either profound dishonesty or a profound ignorance of how human language works.
 
Yes, you are. You are adding the claims that the Louisville PD had been in direct contact with the USPI, and that the packages that USPI verified were "items of interest". The Louisville Police didn't claim either of those. Without those, you haven't caught them in a lie.

Regarding the highlighted:
It was Mattingly, the officer who was shot at Taylor's apartment, who asked the postal service whether Glover was receiving packages at Taylor's apartment.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5706161002

So there’s at least one of the bogus claims that you pulled out of your ass definitively refuted by the facts.
 
Here’s that section of the warrant in full:

https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/louis...cle_f25bbc06-96e4-11ea-9371-97b341bd2866.html

It’s three sentences in a single paragraph.

The police were obviously alleging that packages being sent to Breonna Taylor’s were tied to narcotics.

To claim otherwise displays either profound dishonesty or a profound ignorance of how human language works.
They didn't say that. You are adding it in. Nowhere in the warrant do the claim the narcotics are being sent through the mail. Their argument that he is using her house in a suspicious manner and therefor should be searched for evidence of Glover's criminal enterprise does not depend on or claim that there was anything illicit in the packages inspected by the USPI.

They claim he had his bank account registered to her address as evidence of a link. That isn't because they are claiming the bank is sending him drugs through the post. They don't claim anything illegal came through the post. If the use of her address for non-illegal banking correspondence is suspicious enough to mention without necessarily implying that the letters from the bank were illegal... so can the other packages.

I agree that if they said the USPI had found that pallets of crystal meth were being delivered daily to her house that the warrant would have been stronger. They can't claim this though and don't claim it. They don't claim any drugs came through the mail.

You can't call them a liar based on what you think they believed, but did not say.
 
They didn't say that. You are adding it in. Nowhere in the warrant do the claim the narcotics are being sent through the mail. Their argument that he is using her house in a suspicious manner and therefor should be searched for evidence of Glover's criminal enterprise does not depend on or claim that there was anything illicit in the packages inspected by the USPI.

They claim he had his bank account registered to her address as evidence of a link. That isn't because they are claiming the bank is sending him drugs through the post. They don't claim anything illegal came through the post. If the use of her address for non-illegal banking correspondence is suspicious enough to mention without necessarily implying that the letters from the bank were illegal... so can the other packages.

I agree that if they said the USPI had found that pallets of crystal meth were being delivered daily to her house that the warrant would have been stronger. They can't claim this though and don't claim it. They don't claim any drugs came through the mail.

You can't call them a liar based on what you think they believed, but did not say.

Again, it was three sentences in a single paragraph. The basic rules of human language tell us that those three sentences are connected and discussing the same topic. You want to pretend that each sentence in that same paragraph is somehow completely unrelated to the other two and discussing something completely different. A child would understand that’s not how it works.

You’re just embarrassing yourself now.
 
"Using the house (address) in a suspicious manner" is a vague, non-specific assertion.

What is the activity?

What evidence supports the assertion?

"Probable Cause" is a problematic enough area on its own, a warrant needs more than "these people are bad, so please your honor, let me violate their privacy."
 
This is one situation where I think the US could take something of value from the English judicial system. In England even a legitimate shooting by the police would result in a coroners court enquiry into the circumstances of the death (as are all 'unnatural deaths e.g. RTA). The police involved would be called to give evidence under oath. The postal inspector could be called. Documents would have been made available. The families lawyer, or the judge on behalf of the family could put questions to the supervising officer etc. The jury would return a verdict likely justified homicide. The coroner could issue and the jury could recommend certain actions be taken by the police to prevent similar circumstances occurring in future. All this in a public court. The problem with Grand juries (which is surprising in the US) is that they are secret. In general the process of justice should be open not secret.

If every police fatal shooting was subject to judicial review (and equally every fatal shooting of a police officer) I think improvements in policy would have happened. It also makes it easier to amend law as judicial recommendations can be seen as less political and so easier to gain bipartisan support than if they are brought forward by one party. (I realise that the US has politicised its judicial system, unlike the rest of the common law world, so this is less true in the US.)
That all sounds good to me. In the U.S., there are no inquests. But in many police shootings, there is at least the starting point of the cops' official version, supplemented by the release of various reports that give the general public a better understanding of what happened through the physical evidence. Sounds to me, though, like the Louisville Police Department is not releasing even basic information. Where I live, typically at least portions of the autopsy report would be released to the public. When bits and pieces are just kind of leaked different groups cherry-pick parts to build their own narrative. It is very frustrating.
 
Again, it was three sentences in a single paragraph. The basic rules of human language tell us that those three sentences are connected and discussing the same topic. You want to pretend that each sentence in that same paragraph is somehow completely unrelated to the other two and discussing something completely different. A child would understand that’s not how it works.

You’re just embarrassing yourself now.
Cops don't want to lie on the warrant if they think they might be caught. If each individual sentence is factually true, they're less likely to have the whole thing tossed out of court, but they write the sentences as suggestively as they can, and judges usually go along with it. It's a connect-the-dots kind of exercise.

One thing that strikes me is how many resources seemed to be directed at IMO a relatively petty dealer. I guess with pole cams they don't need anyone staking out a joint, they can just spy on people for months until they come up with enough dots to connect. A provocative claim by the family is that:

Breonna Taylor warrant connected to Louisville gentrification plan, lawyers say

Lawyers for Taylor's family allege in court documents filed in Jefferson Circuit Court Sunday that a police squad — named Place-Based Investigations — had "deliberately misled" narcotics detectives to target a home on Elliott Avenue, leading them to believe they were after some of the city's largest violent crime and drug rings.

The complaint — which amends an earlier lawsuit filed by Taylor's mother against the three Louisville officers who fired their weapons into Taylor's home — claims Taylor was caught up in a case that was less about a drug house on Elliott Avenue and more about speeding up the city's multi-million dollar Vision Russell development plan.

I have no idea if that is true.
 
How is it amazing? This is how US self-defense law works. Walker can claim that he fired at the cops because he feared for his life believing that they were criminals breaking in. The Cops clearly have a self-defence claim since they came under fire while lawfully conducting their business (regardless of whether you like it or not, they had a legal search warrant and were conducting the raid under that warrant in a manner the law prescribes, you don't like it get the law changed.) Both sides have valid self-defence claims to the point that indicting either would be a waste of taxpayer money.

Sure, but that means that cops do something fundamentally wrong when they let it come to this.
 
no, he literally doesn't.

If you believe in the right to defend your home from intruders, then Walker did everything right.

This is the big if. Is it a good idea to start shooting at possibly armed intruders in an apartment complex? What if his bullets had gone out the door and into a neighbour's apartment killing them? What if the intruders were armed and so fired back and killed the person next to him?

I would also point out that Kentucky law does specifically state that opening fire on people you know or should know are peace officers making a lawful entry into your home is illegal, so shouldn't you at least identify who is making that entry before blasting away?

When you are hunting you need to identify your target, do you not think that you should do the same before opening fire in an apartment?
 
"Using the house (address) in a suspicious manner" is a vague, non-specific assertion.

What is the activity?

What evidence supports the assertion?

"Probable Cause" is a problematic enough area on its own, a warrant needs more than "these people are bad, so please your honor, let me violate their privacy."

Tell that to the Judge that approved the warrant. I'm sure your knowledge of the law far outweighs hers. :rolleyes:
 
no, he literally doesn't.

If you believe in the right to defend your home from intruders, then Walker did everything right.


How about if the "intruders" are firemen who have broken down your door to get into your house to rescue you and your children?
 
Regarding the highlighted:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5706161002

So there’s at least one of the bogus claims that you pulled out of your ass definitively refuted by the facts.
No. That isn't how this works. I have been saying that you didn't have evidence to support your claim that the police lied. That isn't me pulling it out of my ass, that is you not supplying evidence to support your claim. You have now found a newspaper that summarizes a report we haven't seen in a way you like. OK, that's an improvement.

It was Mattingly, the officer who was shot at Taylor's apartment, who asked the postal service whether Glover was receiving packages at Taylor's apartment. Jaynes wrote in a March 12 sworn affidavit for a search warrant that he had verified that Glover was receiving packages at Taylor's home through a postal inspector (a Louisville postal inspector later told WDRB news that wasn't true).
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...anted-search-breanna-taylors-home/5706161002/

We see here that they have changed the statement of the postal inspector. The postal inspector said that no "packages of interest" were going to Taylor. Glover says that his packages were going there, so it isn't clear that the newspapers are summarizing things correctly. The postal inspector does not say that no packages for Glover were going to Taylor. Maybe it is somehow the case that no parcels for Taylor were going there? The Postal Inspector doesn't say it. The newspaper summaries of the case are too unreliable and too loosely written to make the inferences you are making.

I have spent some time looking for the report they are relying on and can't find it. If anybody has it, I would be grateful for a link.
 
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