Indianapolis Bakery refuses service to gay student group

[cwalner]

Do you think he would have accepted the order if a local Christian church had asked for rainbow cookies for their harvest festival? I have to admit my speculation is that he wouldn't take the order because it was for "the gays and lesbians".

Well, if you beleive the wife*, she would have refused the rainbow to anybody because they did not have enough colors to do that.

*The customers did not beleive the wife either, which is why they got the media involved.

 

[Cosmic Roy]

Just curious: in the USA is he legally allowed to not serve people because (for example) they are black - in other words can he say "Won't take any orders from a black person"

Good question. Darat, you probably remember the recent case in the UK in which the owners of a guest house refused to accommodate a same-sex couple. Actions that would be rightly condemned if directed on grounds of race seem somehow acceptable to some when sexuality is the issue. In the case above, I don't know whether the owners suffered economically from the publicity, but I'm glad that the law in the UK forbids even 'family businesses' from discriminating on such grounds.

 

[Darat]

Well, if you beleive the wife*, she would have refused the rainbow to anybody because they did not have enough colors to do that.

*The customers did not beleive the wife either, which is why they got the media involved.

Yeah I read that, indeed the husband also didn't seem to believe his wife... obviously those "family values" in action again.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Do you think he would have accepted the order if a local Christian church had asked for rainbow cookies for their harvest festival? I have to admit my speculation is that he wouldn't take the order because it was for "the gays and lesbians".

But I'm guessing it wouldn't have mattered if it were the straight alliance for gay rights, either. It was their message, not their identities, that he opposed. More like failing to print propoganda than failing to serve someone at a restaurant.

 

[Drudgewire]

Do you think he would have accepted the order if a local Christian church had asked for rainbow cookies for their harvest festival? I have to admit my speculation is that he wouldn't take the order because it was for "the gays and lesbians".

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm almost sure it was based on bigotry, but don't think it's an actionable case of discrimination.

 

[C_Felix]

Well, if you beleive the wife*, she would have refused the rainbow to anybody because they did not have enough colors to do that.

*The customers did not beleive the wife either, which is why they got the media involved.

Does anybody know anyone who lives near/in Indy?
Perhaps we can send them in, undercover, to place an order for us.

Christian Rainbow Cookies
or
Easter in October! Ya know, fun colored, rainbow colored cookies to give out on Halloween to counter the pagans.

 

[Darat]

But I'm guessing it wouldn't have mattered if it were the straight alliance for gay rights, either. It was their message, not their identities, that he opposed. More like failing to print propoganda than failing to serve someone at a restaurant.

That could be the reason, but we don't have any evidence to be able to do anything but make speculations like these.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm almost sure it was based on bigotry, but don't think it's an actionable case of discrimination.

Oh sure, it's like the case Cosmic Roy mentions above, even though technically illegal (in the UK) there is not much that can be done when it happens in this type of instance.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I really don't believe it's the same as what Cosmic Roy mentions above. Refusing someone a place to stay is not the same as refusing to supply themed decorations / refreshments for an event you oppose.
Again, we have no evidence that Just Cookies would have refused to sell one of these customer's cookies for his sister's birthday just because the customer is gay. There's a difference between those two things, just like there's a difference between refusing to sell a birthday cake to a black customer and refusing to sell a "Black Power" cake to the same customer.

 

[cwalner]

Yeah I read that, indeed the husband also didn't seem to believe his wife... obviously those "family values" in action again.

Indianapolis is a bit odd in that. In many ways it is a modern urban city (the downtown districts are solidly democrat and one fo few Muslim reps in congress comes from here) yet it is still part of a predominantly agribusiness state and has some old fashioned rural values in the mix.

I actually stopped doing business with a gaming store because the owner was an outright bigot (mostly showed his racism, but I sensed a good amount of homophobia as well). I am sure that I have patronized many businesses in the past where the owners were less than tolerant in thier personal lives, but never bofore moving here have I ever encountered business owners showing such intolerance in thier business practices as well.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I actually stopped doing business with a gaming store because the owner was an outright bigot (mostly showed his racism, but I sensed a good amount of homophobia as well).

Do you mind sharing the name of the gaming store, for those of us who might also patronize it?

 

[Drudgewire]

Oh sure, it's like the case Cosmic Roy mentions above, even though technically illegal (in the UK) there is not much that can be done when it happens in this type of instance.

I still think it's not QUITE the same thing. For it to be an apples to apples comparison the owners would have had to have seen the group enter wearing gay pride shirts and refused to sell them any cookies... which might have been grounds for a civil lawsuit.

While bigotry almost certainly played a role I don't believe it crossed the line to where the group's rights were violated, technically or otherwise. As so eloquently stated earlier, this falls under the owners' right to be an idiot.

 

[cwalner]

Do you mind sharing the name of the gaming store, for those of us who might also patronize it?

Not neccesary, the store closed down shortly after that because he wasn't making any money (not a huge surprise)

 

[GreyArea]

Maybe the bakery should change its name to "Unjust Cookies". Or, how about "Tough Cookies"?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

there's a difference between refusing to sell a birthday cake to a black customer and refusing to sell a "Black Power" cake to the same customer.

What about a birthday cake for little Adolf Hittler?

 

[gnome]

As for the question regarding why there's a discrimination case in housing regarding race, but not sexual orientation... are you asking why one is enforced and the other is not (generally because that's how the laws happen to be written) or why the laws are written that way?

 

[PS13]

I wonder what'll happen if one the daughters draws a rainbow in school.
Or goes to the University of Hawai'i, with rainbows on their team's helmets.

Actually, they changed that back in 2001... They are just 'The Warriors' now. But I do remember when they were the rainbow warriors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Warriors_football

New Helmet:

Old helmet:

 

[casebro]

Re: "National Coming Out Day on October 11th."

Do I have to come out on that day, or is it OK for me to celebrate on that day, even If I've come out years ago?

P.S., I mean coming out as a bigot. I've got my own personal civil rights too ya know. Hmmm, I think I'll come up with a rainbow sticker with a black border. Black for bigotry, celebrate my diversity too. Hey, doesn't your idea of diversity include my right to self expression too? If not, you are a BIGOT! Wanna come out with me on Oct 11?

But I don't think I'll sell my stickers in interstate commerce. The Feds are not very tolerant. Damn bigots.

 

[Dorian Gray]

Student: Do you have any cream-filled doughnuts?
Employee: No
Student: Would you like some?

 

[GrandMasterFox]

I'm trying to think of how a cookie could be made to express an anti-gay message at all. Unless it was one of those big ones, and you just wrote something anti-gay in icing. Which would be cheating.

Wouldn't an 8 (for the prop) do the trick?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Not neccesary, the store closed down shortly after that because he wasn't making any money (not a huge surprise)

Well, no -- gaming stores seldom survive.