Inauguration Day 20 Jan 2021

[Steve]

This:

We all have racist impulses, but the better of us do not by word or deed act on them.

This:

Seeing what there is to see is only racist by a definition of the word that's so broad as to make it meaningless; acting as if what you see is some automatic key for judging what's underneath is what the word is meant to convey. Racists don't get to get out from under a burden they've assumed by hairsplitting whatabouts that they can use to pretend everyone carries the same load.

And this:

Of course if you define racism as noticing race, we're all likely guilty of it, just as we're presumably sexist if we notice whether we're in the presence of a man or a woman. But clearly there are times when such a distinction is apt and when it is not. Because it's sexist to deny a job to a woman, is it sexist to base your marital choices on it? We don't, these days, consider it permissible to discriminate against left handed people, but it's not generally considered outré to make left handed golf clubs.

I think some people are arguing this wrong. There are circumstances where distinction requires certain actions in order to make the ultimate goal of equality work better. In the case of race, there is such a backlog of discriminatory actions and consequences that to advocate sudden colorblindness does not actually correct what needs to be corrected, but simply insures that the dominant, default situation continues uncorrected.

To suggest that this is racism, in the pejorative sense, is a bit like saying that since skidding is wrong, you shouldn't steer into a skid when it happens, or if you tilt too far to one side you shouldn't tilt the other way to keep from falling over.

To speak of correction as racism is to deny the deep seated damage and continued bias that we need to remedy.

I agree with completely.

Example: Our adopted daughter is part Inuit. My wife and I are not. By some stretched beyond reality definitions of racism my wife and I could be identified as racists for recognizing that. My view is that we are not

 

[Mader Levap]

To speak of correction as racism is to deny the deep seated damage and continued bias that we need to remedy.

No one told you that two wrongs does not make right? If you think that correct course of action against, for example, "white privilege" is introduction of "black privilege" (obviously named totally differently so it is not too obvious it is same old crap), I can't help you.

 

[Dr. Keith]

No one told you that two wrongs does not make right? If you think that correct course of action against, for example, "white privilege" is introduction of "black privilege" (obviously named totally differently so it is not too obvious it is same old crap), I can't help you.

If your car pulls to the right, you have to steer a bit to the left to stay in your lane. This is bad for your tires over time. The better option is to fix the pull and then not have to steer away from it. But as you are driving to the alignment shop you don't all of a sudden ignore that your car pulls to the right, unless you want to end up in the ditch.

If we can erase all of the baggage of racism that pulls on our fellow citizens, then we don't have to keep yanking on the steering wheel to stay on the road. But until then, let's not ignore the problem and end up in the ditch.

 

[Mader Levap]

If your car pulls to the right, you have to steer a bit to the left to stay in your lane. This is bad for your tires over time. The better option is to fix the pull and then not have to steer away from it. But as you are driving to the alignment shop you don't all of a sudden ignore that your car pulls to the right, unless you want to end up in the ditch.

If we can erase all of the baggage of racism that pulls on our fellow citizens, then we don't have to keep yanking on the steering wheel to stay on the road. But until then, let's not ignore the problem and end up in the ditch.

I find your comparison utterly ridiculous.

Feel free to continue supporting racist polices just because blacks are beneficiaries instead of whites.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I find your comparison utterly ridiculous.

Feel free to continue supporting racist polices just because blacks are beneficiaries instead of whites.

My brother-in-law is white, as am I. We each own a retail shop, his a burger joint, mine an ice cream parlor, both situated downtown, across the street from each other. We both have “Help Wanted” signs in our front windows, coincidentally identical.

One day I happened to see a young black man walk out of the burger place. I thought nothing of it until, a couple minutes later, the BIL walked though my door (which rings a little tinkly bell) as upset as I’d seen him in quite a while.

“Ain’t no way,” he said. “I don’t care what anybody says, ain’t no way I’m hiring one a them for behind the counter handling everbody’s food! I’ll serve ‘em, their money’s as good as anybody’s, but that’s it.”

Fortunately, there was no one in my place at the time, so my brother-in-law’s little rant wasn’t going to disturb anybody, never mind he turned and walked right back out, not even considering I might have something to say in response.

As my head turned to follow my wife’s hot-headed sibling re-cross the street, my eyes caught sight of the same young man whose interest in flipping burgers for a few bucks an hour incensed my relative so, waiting at the corner bus stop. It wasn’t far, so even though I hustled out to beat the bus’s arrival I wasn’t out of breath when I offered him a job scooping cones.

With that, I guess I have to admit it, I’m a racist. Right?

 

[mgidm86]

Now, let me see if I have this right.

My wife and I, both white, have decided to adopt. Because we wish to give a helping hand to someone we perceive to be at some disadvantage, we're considering either a Hispanic child from Peru, or a Vietnamese orphan, or a black baby who was apparently left in a dumpster to die. We could choose a white kid, but we both want to help bring about a more multi-ethnic world, so we sign the papers for a little Asian girl.

So. Am I racist? My wife? At the end of the day?

Positive racism is certainly more tolerable, but it is still racism.

Racism can be positive? I guess if you read Urban Dictionary it can be. Seems like a different term would be in order in this case.

If he picked a white child would he be racist? If so then what could he possibly do to not be racist in this case? Not adopt an orphan child at all?

He obviously was not looking for a specific race of child as he had three different ones to choose from.

Regnad, you are pretty damn far from racist.

 

[Pixel42]

In an ideal world positive discrimination would be neither necessary nor acceptable.

This is not an ideal world.

 

[Minoosh]

I do not actually "wonder" whether Biden's actions of appointing positions based on race are racist. Obviously they are, if they were not, race would not have been a factor in the choice for the position.

And this is what made your argument dishonest. You don't really wonder, but "I wonder" is a handy rhetorical device that, among other things, helps the speaker avoid making a claim.

My impression is that conservatives are worse about this than liberals. Maybe I just don't notice when liberals do it.

So, IMO, you've progressed here, being more direct, more or less saying Biden is racist. I think picking a running mate is not quite the same as hiring the most qualified person to do a job, because you are looking to balance the ticket so that you can each attract different demographics to your team. Age, geography and gender are all factors, because you're looking for variety, for someone who appeals to a somewhat different constituency.

 

[Minoosh]

There is a more structural definition of racism that involves more than simply reacting differently to different people based on skin color.

Under that view racism is a system for keeping people down, favoring an in-group that has monopolized power over an extended period. I don't know if I totally buy into that, because I think anyone can be racist, but I can also see how the more political definition also describes a real phenomenon.

 

[Mader Levap]

Racism can be positive?

Yep. Word "positive" is not used here in meaning of "moral judgement"*.

In this context, it means discrimination that is beneficial for someone with certain color of skin.
In contrast, "standard" racism, kind that we hear about most often, is negative racism - discrimination against someone with certain color of skin.

Obviously, in instances where there is zero-sum game, these two cases are two sides of same coin. In other instances I find it more acceptable (I will take completely aside discussion about who what and when deserve it - it is separate issue imo).

He obviously was not looking for a specific race of child as he had three different ones to choose from.

"I will pick someone from any race except race x" is still racism, however acceptable this particular instance we find.

To be clear: I do agree some degree of "racism" is inevitable and unavoidable. But if people can whine about "people tending to gravitate to hire people who feel familiar, who share a speaking style, a dress style, a cultural background", I can nitpick about things like selecting anyone except white.

*For example, phrase like "Positive result for HIV" show different meaning of this word than commonly used.