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In simple words, what do Democrats do for minorities?

Elektrix

Critical Thinker
E
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
295
Hi all,

I got sucked into a debate recently with someone who basically made the claim that it is a lie that the Democratic Party does anything for minorities. He actually tried to base this on the members of the Democratic Party who were against civil rights legislation, etc. (I tried to point out to him that it's ridiculous to make that claim since those Democrats aren't really reflective of the current party, save for some remnants like recently retired Zell Miller).

Anyway, he basically put the question to me of explaining what Democrats do for minorities. I tried to respond about how a lot of the things Democrats "do" for minorities have to do with larger issues such as policies relating to health care and education, etc. and how many minorities might perceive them.

But this guy seemed to want more of a bullet list, and didn't seem to be interested in discussing it on a more general level.

So, I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out in how to respond to someone like this, who wants me to "prove" that the Democrats are in fact doing things for minorities.

-Elektrix
 
Well, my understanding is Democrats are FOR minority hiring. They impose restrictions on govt orgs so that they must hire a certain number of minorities. Minority bidders also get bonus "points" on bids.

We also see minority favoratism on colleges as far as entrance exams. Democrats support that while Republicans generally do not.

We can start going into poverty programs which certainly help minorites quite a bit.

Lurker
 
The Democrats are more generous in the definition of "minority", and some of them are even in favor of letting people with less popular sexual orientations have some civil rights, ie, the right not to be fired solely because your boss doesn't like who you sleep with. Not all Democrats feel this way, of course, but more than Republicans.

To many Republicans, such matters are simply "life style" or "sin", and thus merit no consideration beyond a possible constitutional amendment to make sure those people can't get married.
 
One could argue (as your friend does) that the Democrats don't do that much for minorities, although the Hamlet Simian does make several good points.

The basic shift came about during the Civil Rights movement, when the Democrats moved out on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights and other legislation that advanced the causes of minorities. The Republicans, however, capitalized on the White Southern opposition to these acts in the 1970's (the 'Nixon' stragety) by emphasizing 'States Rights' and 'Big Government Interference' to move what had been a generally Democratic region (since Reconstruction) into the Republican part of the map. Obviously, this did not win a lot of votes in the minority community.

Now that this is EXTREMEMLY generalized I know; there were the Strom Thurmonds of the Democrats and more than a few Republicans who backed the Civil Rights laws. But in a broad sweep, the actions of the Civil Rights movement did cause several fundamental changes in our body politic, changes were are still grappling with.

Or so I've heard......
 
It isn't a very convincing argument to claim that the current crop of Democrats are 'for' the civil rights act of 1964...it is a done deal.

And I don't see a of lot evidence of the Democrats exiling Robert Byrd or other 'Old Guard' for their past obstructions to civil rights...quite the contrary, they seem to have been venerated.


But that still doesn't support a blanket assessment of the entire party as doing 'nothing' for minorities.

Doing too little too late, for less than noble reasons, might be a more supportable charge against *some* Dems.
 
crimresearch said:
Doing too little too late, for less than noble reasons, might be a more supportable charge against *some* Dems.
Click to expand...

"Less than noble" is the Democratic Party's official motto.
 
crimresearch said:
And I don't see a of lot evidence of the Democrats exiling Robert Byrd or other 'Old Guard' for their past obstructions to civil rights...quite the contrary, they seem to have been venerated.
Click to expand...

I don't see why they should exile Byrd considering he renounced his racist ways and since has been a solid friend of minorities.

Feel free to show me where Dems have venerated one of their own for their racist ways. Perhaps you are confusing the Dems with the Republicans when Lott praised Strom Thurmond's (R) run for the presidency on a segregationist ticket?

Lurker
 
I believe Electrix is looking for specific examples. Not generalizations. Are there any specific bills or policies which the Dems are responsible for that help minorities? The more current, the better.
 
Democrats are in favor of supporting minority "leaders" who can help them get elected.
 
The democrats tend to favor various welfare programs which help the poor. Minorities are disproportionally poor and therefore are more likely to be helped by these programs. However, I could easily make the arguments that democrats hurt minorties by helping them now and republicans help minorities by hurting them now.

Democrats have traditionally favored ending racist actions by the government and private entities. As racism lessens, this is getting less and less important.

Democrats generally are in favor of making more things available to non-english speaking people.

CBL
 
Luke T. said:
I believe Electrix is looking for specific examples. Not generalizations. Are there any specific bills or policies which the Dems are responsible for that help minorities? The more current, the better.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I already made the general arguments, but it comes across sounding kind of weak, and he still comes back and says that this is just lip service and that the Democrats as a whole don't do anything specific. I basically want to shoot down the claim he is making that it is a "lie" that Democrats do anything for minorities.

-Elektrix
 
Here's what Democrats do for minorities in simple words: They represent them. Most minorities are Democrats.

Now, what do Republicans do for minorities?
 
Elektrix said:
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I already made the general arguments, but it comes across sounding kind of weak, and he still comes back and says that this is just lip service and that the Democrats as a whole don't do anything specific. I basically want to shoot down the claim he is making that it is a "lie" that Democrats do anything for minorities.

-Elektrix
Click to expand...

Specific examples of current legislation?

Take for example the current 'Guestworker' legislation...Bush is for it, but so are some Dems, and yet it contains language that makes it seem like a way keep a steady supply of nannies, gardeners and migrant workers in immigration limbo, despite promises of legal citizenship...

So is it 'good for' minorities?
 
Youve got 2 choices. Dems or GOP. I dont think its so much what the Dems do, as far as what the GOP doesnt do.

89% of blacks voted for Kerry. WHY? Not that Kerry is seen as some savior for the brown and downtrodden. Bush is just seen as the sterotypical Republican. Tax cuts for the rich and big business (oil, drug compaines), supporting a war in Iraq thats being fought by the poor. His moves really affect minority communities in a negative way.

What has the GOP done for minorities?
 
OK, this was his response to me after I brought these points up:

(in response to minority hiring, bonus points for minority owned businesses, etc.)

Democrats are for hiring people based on skin color. They are for imposing restrictions on buisness. Look at what happens in practice. In the late 70's Delta Airlines was told to hire more black pilots. In fact, they had only one at the time. So they interviewed blacks, and didn't find any qualified. So rather than hire an unqualified pilot to appease a government imposted quota, they went to Nigeria, and hired a bevy of wonderfully colored people. Problem solved?
Wrong.

No American blacks were hired. And American whites were not hired.

This is what happends with artificial hiring quotas. This is happening with doctors, and with many techical fields. I know the liberal excuse is that you hire the black man cause they got the shaft, but if no qualified black shows for the job, the quota is still there. So the American, black or white, gets the shaft, when they look to other countries so their company can have that nice multicolored look, rather than that nice productive effort.

----

(in response to affirmative action, ending racist actions by governments, etc.)

They are for ending racist policies by enforcing racisit polices. They are for curbing free speech, and creating bogus new laws under the label of HATE legislation.

---

(in response to Democratic support for povery programs, etc.)

And as we have seen in Northern California, these programs keep people in poverty. San Fran raised the minimum wage for resturant workers. What happend? Many resturants layed off workers, and fewer worked more hours. The result, more people out of work, more poverty. This is how most hand out programs result.

----

(in response to supporting gay rights, etc.)

Last poll showed 65% of ALL Americans were against gay marriage. Kerry was against gay marriage. Suprisingly the Republicans are for civil unions. This tide is turning, and it will change, just give it time.

----

(in response to the Civil Rights Act, etc. and some general points about how this lost the Democrats a lot of Southern Democrat support, and how the Republicans capitalized on this in the 70's)

This is where you are way off. It was the republicans that pushed for civil rights, and it was a republican controlled congress that got Johnson to sign the Civil Rights Acts. Remember it was the Democrats that blocked access to schools, forcing the national guard to intervene, it was the Democrats that were in KKK hoods, not Republicans. I don't know how the wool was pulled over people's eyes, but the Democrats were the loudest opposition to Civil Rights.

---

(in response to welfare programs)

It is hurting. Welfare was supposed to be a crutch, not a lifestyle. And being rewarded for having more and more childrend is an incentive for getting yourself on your feet how?

---

(in response to making things available in other languages, etc.)

And this is a good thing how? Typical Democrat program. Rather than the person work to overcome a problem, lets gloss over the problem so that it is never confronted, never overcame, and down the road we have bigger problems. No dice on this one. If I move to France, I must learn French.

---

(in response to Democrats representing minorities)

And the number of Hispanics that voted GOP DOUBLED in this election. The number of blacks that voted GOP increased by 33%. I think that LESS minorities see that Democrats represent them.

---

(in response to guestworker legislation)

I do not know enough about this to speak one way or the other.
Click to expand...

I then asked him to reply back with what he thinks Republicans do for minorities, and his response was:

They want to create a stable, well running nation were every person can succeed or fail based on their own sweat and labor. Without government interference. They want this for EVERYONE, regardless of your color or race. They want people to account for themselves, with lower taxes so you can keep your money.

The hard part is, if you fail, its up to YOU to fix it, not Daddy Government. They want to give you a boost, not a lifestyle if you need help.
Click to expand...

-Elektrix
 
Didnt you hear? The best way to help group X is to do absolutely nothing for them!!!!

What bugs me is that if a political groups does somthing to woo a minority group its seen as some immoral payoff. ISNT THAT WHAT POLITICS IS ABOUT!?!?

Boths sides buy off certain groups. Sometimes they buy off the same ones. Is there any real justification for dolling out tax breaks and free services to people with children?? Its to win votes. No one ever says "You know what, If we take mom n dads tax break away they will learn to live without that crutch. It'll be good for everyone!"

And dont get me started on the eldery. Is there anything they dont catch a break on. Its not cause we feel for old people, its cause they are a strong voting block.
 
Elektrix:

The Delta example is flawed as that is a private company making decisions. I doubt the govt forced anything upon them. I was referring to govt, which does have certain quotas. But I doubt they require anyone to hire non-qualified personnel. Ask your conservative friend to prove that they do.

As for technical fields, they still need the degree, whether black or white. Nobody will hire a black man as an engineer without the degree. Further, I was referring to college entrance exams and the like which really just provide some extra points on their critieria.

You pal also changed the game on affirmative action. We used it as an example of what liberals have done to support minorities and all he did was divert into whether it is just. Does not matter, it helps minorities, satisfying his first query.

He actually is partially right about the Civil rights history but leaves out that those racist Democrats that opposed Civil rights converted to the Republican party soon thereafter.

As to welfare, is he aware that the majority of people on the prgram are not on for a lneghty period of time? REgardless, he asked what we do for them, this is an example. He wants to argue the merits of the system which again diverts form hsi original question.

Finally, when you turn the tables and ask the question of him he provides generalities. Ask him fo rspecificsc on what Republicans have done for minorities, not what they have done for everyone. Specifics.

Lurker
 
Here are some Democratic positions that are arguably pro-minority:

- more federal spending for education
- increased minimum wage
- health care for people who can't afford medical insurance
- support for affirmative action
 
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