In religion, women are second-class.

[jiggeryqua]

And it's another derail. Gee. And it only took taking it out of the context of "I wouldn't hospitalize them against their will", and latching on a phrase out of context.

Let me guess... when you told that someone, "I said I was 'debating' with one of those online presences who always ignore the actual point of your argument and instead find a single sentence they think they see a flaw in, and then try to attack you through that."... you were describing your own behaviour, right?

Oh give it a rest. In the discussion of what society should pay for in terms of care, you (from a position of ignorance) insist that society should not facilitate someone's sex life, regardless of Rights (which you demonstrably are not familiar with), and go on to insist that anyone who is so in need that they cannot get laid on your terms should be consigned to the sort of 'hospitals' that we no longer use, just as we no longer deny women rights, just as we no longer enslave africans, just as we no longer build concentration camps. I've worked in that field, you evidently have no understanding of it, you just want to 'win' against an 'opponent' because it's the 'internet' and you've been reduced to the primary school taunt of "I know you are, but what am I?"

You referenced something you have clearly never read (you described the UDoHR as 'negative rights' when they are overwhelmingly positive). You lost, if that's your metaphor of choice, right there. Lie down and take the count.

You don't want 'your' tax money to pay for sex. I don't know why - we do know that it's important to anyone's sense of self esteem, of being a real person, of being a legitimate member of society. Consigning people to 'hospitals', as you wish, is not to recognise them as legitimate members of society. Affording a class of people only such minimal, grudging charity as will serve to save you from a label of 'monster' is repellent to me.

 

[KingMerv00]

Religion is created by humans and therefore reflects human behavior and thought.

Heterosexual men are naturally disgusted by and afraid of male homosexuality and find lesbianism baffling and threatening (and to a smaller extent, heterosexuals in general, both men and women, find homosexuality strange and abnormal.) And so religion bans homosexuality.

Men naturally hate and fear women and think they are better than women are. They want to control them and rule over them. They want an obedient wife or girlfriend who will bend to their will. So religion says that women are inferior to men.

Humans want control and power over animals and so religion says they have it, men value chastity in women and exclusive sexual rights to them and therefore religion says women must be virgins before marriage, humans naturally dislike people of other races and so religion tells them they are superior, humans are naturally violent and so religion tells them they can oppress, demean, assault and fight wars against people of other religions, ethnic origins and races- and so on and on and on.

Religion just imitates and parallels human behavior.

You still around EeneyMinnieMoe? Were you being serious? Do you really think I want to dominate women, that I fear homosexuality, and that I think chastity is a good thing?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

You still around EeneyMinnieMoe? Were you being serious? Do you really think I want to dominate women, that I fear homosexuality, and that I think chastity is a good thing?

You're number three or four to ask simialr questions on the "seriousness" of that post.
We are all eagerly awaiting a response.
If and when we get one, please take your place in the queue.

 

[TimCallahan]

To get things back to the original topic I thought we could come up with some standards by which to measure women's position in various religions. Here are a few suggestions:

1) Is the religion, either in its doctrine or in its holy books specifically sexist?

For example: In 1 Corinthians, Paul (although this is likely an interpolation) tells women to be silent in church. In Romans he says the head of every woman is her husband.

2) Regardless of what it's doctrines say, is it sexist in its everyday application?

For example: All the Qur'an says about how women should dress is that both genders should dress modestly. And yet, we have the burqa.

3) Does it allow both genders into the priesthood, or does it exclude one gender?

The Roman Catholic church comes readily to mind. However, many Protestant denominations likewise exclude women from the clergy. At the opposite pole, albeit in much smaller numbers, certain radically feminist Wiccan groups specifically exclude men from their priestesshoods.

Does anyone have any other ideas for standards?