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Important Question about Diabetes

Kumar said:
I feel this aspect should be seriously & honestly studied for the mass benefits to humanity.
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Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once.

Diabetes is a complex disease. Much more complex than I suspect Kumar realises. However, it is also one of the best-studied and best-understood diseases there is. Much better studied and better understood than I suspect Kumar realises.

No doubt there are still things to be learned about it, there always are. However, I don't have a clue what Kumar is talking about. This may be partly due to language difficulties (see short exchange above), but I think it is mostly due to the fact that Kumar doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Rather than assuming that you've stumbled on some hitherto unsuspected revelation which has escaped all the biochemists all these years, why don't you go off and study what is already known about diabetes? For example, the real causes of insulin resistance (steroid hormones, growth hormone, that sort of thing), what a Somogyi overswing is, and what really occurs during hyperinsulinaemia.

At least try to learn the vocabulary of the subject well enough so that you can express yourself in terms which people whose business it is to understand this condition can actually comprehend.

Rolfe.
 
OK thanks for contributions. You are right my language is bit diiferant than the vocabulary of the subject which matters the most. I feel bit sorry.
 
What a sad post, Kumar. I almost feel a bit sorry as well after that.

But what do you think about Rolfe's post (which is a translation of my :cool: ). Don't you think that you need to have a good grasp of your subject before you offer insights for "mass benefits to humanity".

Also you started this thread seemingly asking for help but all along it was you who was going to claim to have the answer. Some would call that trolling.

What do you think?
 
Hello BillyJoe ,

My system is to give & get informations of any unsolved/new issue of whose I got some clues ,not only just take . It is just like to stimulate & new things may come out during discussions. It may not be good to furthur suffocate a hidden issue. When one person just like me found this fact that his BS & other complications are got controlled by discontinuing and reducing the insulin & oral medicines then it means something. We should discuss here something new/differant/creative, not the regular features which are very much available outside this forum & easily available.

I think I might have bit irritated you but am not absolutely wrong.
 
All right, I will say this once more. Somogyi overswing. Do you even know what that means? If not, I suggest you find out.

The people who need to be investigating this are the people who are looking after your diabetic friend - firstly to make sure that he isn't doing himself permanent harm by reducing his medication. There are lots of reasons why medication may need to be varied in a diabetic patient, but it must be done under proper medical supervision. And if there is indeed something unusual about this case, then only the people who are in a position to investigate the patient (that is, run the necessary blood tests and so on) are going to be able to figure out what it is.

Yes, Kumar, you are being irritating, because you are claiming some sort of special insight into a medical condition you quite obviously don't know the first thing about, and because you are trying to run a speculative discussion about something none of us can have an informed opinion about, because we don't have access to all the test results we'd need in order to be able to form that opinion. It's pointless.

Rolfe.
 
Kumar,

Kumar said:
My system is to give & get informations of any unsolved/new issue of whose I got some clues ,not only just take.
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The problem is that you seemed to be "taking" (asking us for advice) when you were, in fact, "giving" (telling us your insights). Maybe its just the language problem. Maybe you need to be more open and honest about your posts.

Kumar said:
It is just like to stimulate & new things may come out during discussions. It may not be good to furthur suffocate a hidden issue.
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In what way is this a hidden issue? Are you saying that doctors are hiding this from us or that they just do not know about it. Think about the second option for a moment. There are diabetologist all over the world each of them treating many patients every day. Do you think this effect would have been missed by these experts. The only possible way for the effect you describe to remain unrecognised would be if it was extremely rare.

Kumar said:
When one person just like me found this fact that his BS & other complications are got controlled by discontinuing and reducing the insulin & oral medicines then it means something.
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The question is what does it mean. Maybe it is just the Somogyi effect as Rolfe keeps saying (really, if you do not know what his effect is I imagine you could probably look it up on the internet)

Kumar said:
We should discuss here something new/differant/creative, not the regular features which are very much available outside this forum & easily available.
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Well, we can really only do this if we have a solid knowledge base, theoretical and practical, about diabetes. Otherwise we're just pulling ourselves off.

Kumar said:
I think I might have bit irritated you but am not absolutely wrong.
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Actually I am very tolerant and not easily irritated. And maybe you are absolutely wrong. How would you know, unless you had that theoretical and practical knowledge base, that what you seem to be observing is actually what is going on.

regards,
BillyJoe.
 
Kumar:

Your speculations are interesting, but let's be real: Type 2 diabetes is a world-wide epidemic; the estimated number of patients is currently a quarter of a billion, expected to double within the next 10 years. There is a large number of VERY competent research institutions doing very intensive research in this area.

The possibility that someone with only a superficial knowledge of diabetes should stumble on an important new discovery based on the study of ONE patient is, for all practical purposes, non-existent.

Hans

PS: I have made an identical post in the other forum where you have asked exactly the same questions (and gotten the same answers.)
 
MRC_Hans said:
PS: I have made an identical post in the other forum where you have asked exactly the same questions (and gotten the same answers.)
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I hadn't realised that he'd raised the same thing in another forum. That's as well as the homoeopathy question ("potential energy"!!), and the "basis of ancient science" one, both in this forum?

:tr:

Rolfe.
 
One should think twice before spitting towards the 'Sun', which can fall back on him. Are you able to explain that how blood sugar has come down immediately after discontinuing insulin & reducing the oral medicines & sustaing since last 37 days. If you can't explain otherwise, then you may better decide who is troll.

Dr.Hans,

When you gotten the same awnser, then what is your purpose to post here again?

For referance, can see site of other forum at;

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/ultimate/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000258;p=1#000016
 
Kumar,

Kumar said:
One should think twice before spitting towards the 'Sun', which can fall back on him.
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Only at noon at the time of the Summer Solstice and provided there is no wind. ;)
Or at other times provided the wind is in the right direction and of the right magnitude. :cool:

Kumar said:
Are you able to explain that how blood sugar has come down immediately after discontinuing insulin & reducing the oral medicines & sustaing since last 37 days.
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Not without a whole lot more data.

BillyJoe
 
Sorry, something was missed in my last post:

Somogyi overswing or insulin induced hyperglycemia (high blood sugar). This is when an excessive insulin dose lowers blood glucose too far and the body responds to this potentially life threatening situation by producing hormones which are antagonistic to the effects of insulin. The release of these hormones causes blood glucose to rise again, often to very high levels which can spill over into the urine and produce strong positive morning urine glucose results. If adequate care is not taken, these results can be misinterpreted by an insulin adjustment protocol as indicating a requirement for an increase in dose. Such an increase will, in fact, only make matters worse. The possibility of inducing Somogyi overswing can be reduced by measuring urine glucose 3 times a day or by relying on nadir (lowest point in the day) blood glucose results for making insulin dose adjustments. . This can be associated with unusually high doses of insulin and continued clinical signs of polyuria and polydipsia, particularly in the evenings when blood glucose has been increased by the release of protective hormones.


DIABETES - SOMOGYI "rebound"

Somogyi Effect is a swing to a high level of glucose (sugar) in the blood from an extremely low level, usually occurring after an untreated insulin reaction during the night.

The swing is caused by the release of stress hormones to counter low glucose levels.

People who experience high levels of blood glucose in the morning may need to test their blood glucose levels in the middle of the night.

If blood glucose levels are falling or low, adjustments in evening snacks or insulin doses may be recommended.
=================================

All in bold never experianced during high dose treatment. Furthur, this a temporay feature not a persistant feature. Pls refresh youself.
 
Kumar

Kumar said:
Complete details are are available at below mentioned site.
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Okay, so now that you know what the Somogyi Phenomenon is........

Kumar said:
You may relate to my case;
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......perhaps you could relate it to your case. After all, we do not have the data yet.

BillyJoe
 
Before about one month(27th sept/29th sept.) I asked one question from so many doctors:-

Dear sir,

I recenly came across with a strange aspect in Diabetic
Conditions. In this regard I request you to inform the
following question:-
If it can be possible that the medicines which are
prescribed for enhancing the Insulin secretion (allopathic or other) OR INSULIN (exogenous) is responsible for elevation of Blood Sugar level in Chronic Diabetic patients specially with Insulin
Resistant types??

OR

If any diabetic patient who is on Oral Insulin enhancing
medicine and/or on exogenous Insulin, dis-continue these medicines o Insulin can find that his Blood Sugar is decreasing very quickly? If it can be possible than how ? If this aspect is properly researched or looked into as yet or not.
Please awnser in detail and as soon as posible after due senior
consultations.

Best regards.
====================
I received the reply reply;

The question is very interesting.

Occasionally this can happen if the patient is getting low sugar due to over
dosage of medicines. The treatment has to be looked into carefully.

Thank you for your interest and with regards,
=======================
My second question;


> Many thanks for your reply. But can it happen when patient is
> taking both oral medicines and Insulin and his blood sugar
> remained on higher side (275/300) during full course of these
> medications(6 months) and BS got controlled along with some
> Hypogly.shots, when he dicontinued insulin and reduced Oral
> medicines by 50%.
>
> Please inform if this aspect is researched/considered as yet.
>
> With best regards.
=========================
Second reply of doctor;


It can occasionally happen if the sugar is high because the sugar can suddenly drop without the patient's knowledge which can result in further increase in the blood sugar (high swing of blood sugar). In this situation, reducing the dose of insulin and the tablets the blood sugars can decrease.
This is called as Somogyi syndrome.

With regards,
 
Doctors indicates that Insulin toxicity is not yet considered to be seen as a factor to cause Insulin Resistance. In other words this concept in not yet suitably studied or researched as looked irrelevant but may not be like so. If this concept is confirmed(with least efforts) then millions can benefit but some can loose(but for good). The patient of the mentioned case do not suffer from 'Somogyi overswing/rebound/syndrome.
 
Kumar said:
This is called as Somogyi syndrome
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Are you telling us that this case was solved before you even posted here. :mad:

And that you already knew no new interpretation of diabetes was needed to explain it. :mad:

Or are you disagreeing with the two doctors (and Rolfe's) explanation of the case. :cool:

BillyJoe
 
Kumar,

Damn, we cross-posted.

Kumar said:
Doctors indicates that Insulin toxicity is not yet considered to be seen as a factor to cause Insulin Resistance. In other words this concept in not yet suitably studied or researched as looked irrelevant but may not be like so.
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Did he say Insulin Toxicity has not yet been studied or that it is not seen to be a cause of Insulin Resistance?

Kumar said:
If this concept is confirmed(with least efforts) then millions can benefit but some can loose(but for good).
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Where are your data that indicate "millions" suffer from "insulin toxicity" and therefore would benefit.

Kumar said:
The patient of the mentioned case do not suffer from 'Somogyi overswing/rebound/syndrome.
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So you say but what do you base this conclusion on?

BillyJoe
 
<FONT SIZE="+2">INSULIN "TOXICITY" DOES NOT CAUSE INSULIN RESISTANCE.</FONT>

I'm sorry if you think this is closed-minded, but sometimes knowing what you are talking about does come over as closed-minded to the absolutely ignorant.

Rolfe.
 
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