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Implications of Scottish Independence

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Anyway, I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. Read Business for Scotland, read the relevant articles on Wings, and argue with them if you can. Content-free sniping from the sidelines doesn't amount to an argument.

Rolfe.
 
You have a problem with the figure? You'd rather it was less? Or more?

Do you ever read any of the links I post?

Rofe.
 
Soapy, senior BBC presenter no. 2 has weighed into the BBC bias debate. Might be of interest to you.

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/inde...9147-its-a-no-to-the-bbcs-referendum-coverage

Funnily enough she mentions another senior BBC Scotland bod, and that reminded me I was asked the other day to go round his house with Yes posters and badges because he lives about half a mile from me. How come all the pro-indepedence ones are all ex?

Rolfe.

I'm no defender of the policies of the BBC. For 26 years I owned no TV and while the file they and their goons at Capita have on me consisted of my address and the (true) fact I denied owning a TV there, my file of letters to and from them is a thick one, finally terminated after they rather stupidly suggested in print that I was STILL committing an offence. That ended with a sort of apology and agreement to take me off their mailing list for a few years.
I hold no brief for the Beeb.

I would point out though, that the first "B" stands for "British" and anyone expecting them to support 5 million licence payers ceceding needs to get a grasp of reality (just as the BBC needs to realise that their financing model ceased to be relevant or fair around 1980). While they may be supposed to take an oath of neutral objectivity around UK internal politics, this is hardly normal UK politics. This is a proposal to take a chainsaw to UK internal politics.

Frankly, I'm surprised HM Gov has refrained from turning it into an open conduit of "Stay put" propaganda. Possibly if they did, the management, ever jealous of their freedom from government control, might actually lean the opposite way.

I'm sure you are right that it is biased. I suspect you are simply likely, because of your own involvement, to see bias where it does not exist as well as where it does. This puts you in the position of crying "wolf" and being surprised to be ignored when there really is one.
 
You have a problem with the figure?
I have several problems with it.

It's a cynical bribe
It You have a problem with the figure? You'd rather it was less? Or more? Do you ever read any of the links I post? Rofe.[/quote]"]doesn't add up
What's stopping the SNP from implementing it now?
Is it not presumtious of the SNP to determine the policy of any future Scottish government?

Do you ever read any of the links I post?
Aye Rolfe. I'm all over them.
 
I'm sure you are right that it is biased. I suspect you are simply likely, because of your own involvement, to see bias where it does not exist as well as where it does. This puts you in the position of crying "wolf" and being surprised to be ignored when there really is one.


Well there's no answer to that, is there? I think some of your complaints might have been poorly founded therefore all your complaints may be reasonably ignored.

The amount of actual evidence is quite embarrassing. I only wanted an example of something your wife thought was biassed the other way so I could compare perceptions.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Well there's no answer to that, is there? I think some of your complaints might have been poorly founded therefore all your complaints may be reasonably ignored.

I find it probable (no, I find it absolutely certain) that some of what you see as bias, others would not.

I therefore think that when you are right about bias, many people will doubt you because of your less reliable examples.
This is the moral of the story of the boy who cried wolf, one I'd expect anyone with as many letters after her name as you have to be familiar with.
Compare this with the quote from your post, in particular the highlighted "conclusion". If you think they are the same, then I must wonder if some of those letters have slipped off the page.

There's a Yes meeting in Athelstaneford tomorrow. You going?
 
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The amount of actual evidence is quite embarrassing. I only wanted an example of something your wife thought was biassed the other way so I could compare perceptions.

Rolfe.
Can't honestly remember now. It's weeks or months back , but it was something you had mentioned on here. We don't discuss it now as she suspects me of harbouring secret indie sympathies- possibly because I tease her with some of your stuff. We have enough other little stresses right now that getting embroiled in politics is best avoided.
 
I have several problems with it.

It's a cynical bribe
It doesn't add up
What's stopping the SNP from implementing it now?
Is it not presumtious of the SNP to determine the policy of any future Scottish government?


It's an example of the magnitude of the likely independence dividend, in a way people can probably comprehend. It's an attempt to get the message over that Scotland can better afford to be independent than it can afford to keep sending all its money to Westminster and getting pocket-money back, apparently grudgingly.

The main thrust of Project Fear is, don't vote Yes, you'll be bankrupt. It's a bare-faced lie. It's all over the media. The truth has to be presented somehow.

If you don't want Scotland to be independent because you want to live under the union flag and be governed from Westminster (whatever they decide to do to us), then fine, vote No. But there are very many people who want to vote Yes, but are terrified by the lies. I think it would be a tragedy if a No vote were to come from a population which wanted to vote Yes but had been frightened away by a pack of falsehoods.

You can't just announce "it doesn't add up" as an assertion. I'm not a fan of Max Keiser, but you might look at what he said today - just another one to add to the list of those who've actually worked it out.

How can the SNP take control of all Scotland's revenue and expenditure now? Even you have to see that's a nonsense demand. That's what we're voting on. Whether to allow Holyrood to take that control, or leave it with Westminster.

The SNP can only say, if elected in 2016, these are the policies we would pursue. So this gives you one vision at least of how things can be. The other parties could produce their own visions, but they won't. The SNP's manifesto shows what you can have, the breadth and scope of change. Other visions may be available from other providers in due course. This is one example.

Do you trust your own representatives in Holyrood with control of all Scotland's assets to administer for the good of Scotland? Or do you prefer to send all the money and all the power to Westminster in the hope that they'll give you some of both back? That's the question, you know.

Aye Rolfe. I'm all over them.


And I'm Cleopatra's auntie.

Seriously, I don't understand you. You seem viscerally and blindly opposed to self-determination for your own country, even in the knowledge that a bunch of other countries no bigger or cleverer than Scotland and with manifestly fewer resources are doing far far better than the mighty UK in all the tables of prosperity and happiness and so on.

You're being offered a prize people have fought and died for, for the price of a cross on a piece of paper. And you won't even peek inside the brochure to see if it might possibly be true.

Rolfe.
 
I find it probable (no, I find it absolutely certain) that some of what you see as bias, others would not.

I therefore think that when you are right about bias, many people will doubt you because of your less reliable examples.
This is the moral of the story of the boy who cried wolf, one I'd expect anyone with as many letters after her name as you have to be familiar with.
Compare this with the quote from your post, in particular the highlighted "conclusion". If you think they are the same, then I must wonder if some of those letters have slipped off the page.


Well, the documented evidence is all over Newsnet, and more recently Wings. There is one published academic study, and another currently being carried out, and there's Bateman. If you want to handwave it away, I can do no more.

There's a Yes meeting in Athelstaneford tomorrow. You going?


You jest! There are two or three Yes meetings every night, somewhere in the country. I'm trying to put one together here for 23rd June. They're for the undecided, anyway. I sometimes go to one that's close, but Athelstaneford is bloody miles.

Quite a few of them are available to view online, thanks to a crowd-funded initiative by a bunch of guys with some video gear and an internet connection. That's grassroots for you. (Yes Scotland has no more than a vague idea of what's going on, by now.)

Rolfe.
 
Can't honestly remember now. It's weeks or months back , but it was something you had mentioned on here. We don't discuss it now as she suspects me of harbouring secret indie sympathies- possibly because I tease her with some of your stuff. We have enough other little stresses right now that getting embroiled in politics is best avoided.


There's no point falling out over it. People can make their own minds up and vote the way they decide without turning it into "bowl aboot". My two closest friends are No. We just don't talk about it. It's not personal.

Having said that, I don't have to live with them! And my Mum would have put the Yes posters in the window herself if she'd still been alive.

Rolfe.
 
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Any comments on these two issues?

http://www.weourselves.com/herald-blows-lid-clean-off-camerons-covert-operations/

http://www.weourselves.com/debunking-the-fiction-of-the-continuing-state/

And if the stock answer is, well of course the British state is fighting tooth and nail to keep Scotland, and the gloves are off and this is war and you shouldn't be surprised at anything they do, could we consider why?

What about the great British attribute of fair play, ironically one of the things that's so attractive it's supposed to be a reason to stay in the union? What happened to that? All a facade? What happened to all the fine words aimed at foreign leaders about the right of peoples to self-determination, and the right to opt to govern themselves without interference by colonial powers? Only valid for Ukraine and Kosovo?

Westminster is desperate to keep Scotland, that's for sure. And it's not because of a self-sacrificing paternalistic impulse to save the unruly child from the consequences of its own folly, despite the resulting necessity for dipping into its own resources to cover the pocket-money.

Rolfe.
 
I don't know if separation is good or bad for Scotland, but believe there is strength in Unity. Good luck to all of them. England and Scotland will survive a break up.
Why now? The Spencers and Diane are direct descendent 5 X from the Stuarts, albeit illegitimate . At long last the future King his direct heir are descended from the Stuarts. A good question is "What would Mary, Queen of Scots want"? "What would Jamie Stuart want"? The King over the water via Diane is a miracle for Scotland and Stuarts. It is what the Scots fought for a long time, with much hardship and many dead. Prince William and Harry descend from every Scottish and English Monarch.
 
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The Spencers and Diane are direct descendent 5 X from the Stuarts, albeit illegitimate . At long last the future King his direct heir are descended from the Stuarts. A good question is "What would Mary, Queen of Scots want"? "What would Jamie Stuart want"? The King over the water via Diane is a miracle for Scotland and Stuarts. It is what the Scots fought for a long time, with much hardship and many dead. Prince William and Harry descend from every Scottish and English Monarch.
Please tell me this is a joke.
 
"scumbag Scottish Labour politicians".

Ahh, that turned out to be quality bollocks, that did.

No it didn't. Did you have trouble reading some of the responses? Or did you want some help with some of the more difficult mathematical concepts..........such as the 40 odd Scottish Labour MP's who voted for the legislation imposing top up fees on English students only, which passed by a majority in single figures? £2000 per pupil per year, as a direct result of scumbag Scottish Labour MPs voting on something which would never affect them in Scotland. £8000 those scumbags cost my daughter.

So, not quality bollocks at all. Which part of that are you still finding complicated?
 
Not here it's not. On this forum, those making the claim provide the evidence.

Other than Rolfe in this blog, of course.


That can not possibly be true. Please, this is common knowledge. What's with harassing a new poster on this thread? And in advance and anticipation of such event, will post "believe". MOO, IMO, IMOO
 
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No it didn't. Did you have trouble reading some of the responses? Or did you want some help with some of the more difficult mathematical concepts..........such as the 40 odd Scottish Labour MP's who voted for the legislation imposing top up fees on English students only, which passed by a majority in single figures? £2000 per pupil per year, as a direct result of scumbag Scottish Labour MPs voting on something which would never affect them in Scotland. £8000 those scumbags cost my daughter.

So, not quality bollocks at all. Which part of that are you still finding complicated?

It's a shame that's not what you actually said at the time, isn't it?
 
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That can not possibly be true. Please, this is common knowledge. What's with harassing a new poster on this thread? And in advance and anticipation of such event, will post "believe". MOO, IMO, IMOO
The question is not whether it is "true" that
... The Spencers and Diane are direct descendent 5 X from the Stuarts, albeit illegitimate . At long last the future King his direct heir are descended from the Stuarts. A good question is "What would Mary, Queen of Scots want"? "What would Jamie Stuart want"? The King over the water via Diane is a miracle for Scotland and Stuarts. It is what the Scots fought for a long time, with much hardship and many dead. Prince William and Harry descend from every Scottish and English Monarch.
My problem is the idea that Scots are fighting, or even voting, to establish the offspring of the Spencers on the throne. Neither will they go to the polling places on Referendum Day determined to vote as Mary Stuart or her vile son "would want".
 
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