Immigrants to US workforce: "Want your jobs back? Come get them!"

[Checkmite]

Recently, the United Farm Workers has launched a campaign offering any citizen of the US help in landing a job with farm employers.

Article

Farm workers are tired of being blamed by politicians and anti-immigrant activists for taking work that should go to Americans and dragging down the economy, said Arturo Rodriguez, the president of the United Farm Workers of America.

So the group is encouraging the unemployed — and any Washington pundits or anti-immigrant activists who want to join them — to apply for the some of thousands of agricultural jobs being posted with state agencies as harvest season begins.

...

Those who have done the job have some words of advice for applicants: First, dress appropriately.

During summer, when the harvest of fruits and vegetables is in full swing in California's Central Valley, temperatures hover in the triple digits. Heat exhaustion is one of the reasons farm labor consistently makes the Bureau of Labor Statistics' top ten list of the nation's most dangerous jobs.

Second, expect long days. Growers have a small window to pick fruit before it is overripe.

And don't count on a big paycheck. Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Any takers?

Fat, gray-haired blowhards welcome to apply.

 

[Puppycow]

 

[Drysdale]

You're sounding like that's a good thing to under pay and overwork.

Why?

 

[WildCat]

Recently, the United Farm Workers has launched a campaign offering any citizen of the US help in landing a job with farm employers.

Article



Fat, gray-haired blowhards welcome to apply.

So don't you think such a difficult and dangerous job should pay more than minimum wage?

In fact, it would indeed pay far above minimum wage... if the legal labor market wasn't circumvented with illegal workers.

It is, however, quite interesting to see a labor union fighting for lower wages and benefits and worker exploitation. The UFW fails as badly as the SEIU, which fought WalMart in Chicago tooth and nail, and it turns out the starting pay at WalMart is $0.35/hr higher than the starting pay at SEIU-represented grocery stores.

 

[WildCat]

You're sounding like that's a good thing to under pay and overwork.

Why?

Apparently worker exploitation is now a progressive ideal.

 

[quixotecoyote]

So don't you think such a difficult and dangerous job should pay more than minimum wage?

In fact, it would indeed pay far above minimum wage... if the legal labor market wasn't circumvented with illegal workers.

It is, however, quite interesting to see a labor union fighting for lower wages and benefits and worker exploitation. The UFW fails as badly as the SEIU, which fought WalMart in Chicago tooth and nail, and it turns out the starting pay at WalMart is $0.35/hr higher than the starting pay at SEIU-represented grocery stores.

I'd say it fails quite a bit worse. When the markets aren't being circumvented by illegal labor, unions can drive up wages, with other employers paying just over union rates to attract workers and weaken the union influence.

 

[Just thinking]

Fat, gray-haired blowhards welcome to apply.

I just love that ... what on Earth makes you think young, healthy liberals would be any more eager? Not that you said that, but why pick on any one group of individuals? Besides, from what I keep hearing, the unemployment rate for younger groups is higher than for older populations.

 

[drkitten]

I just love that ... what on Earth makes you think young, healthy liberals would be any more eager?

Because young, healthy, liberals aren't typically the ones complaining that "illegals are stealing our jobs."

As it was put in the movie Ratatouille, "it's not stealing if nobody wants it."

 

[Just thinking]

Because young, healthy, liberals aren't typically the ones complaining that "illegals are stealing our jobs."

Then they should prove it by taking the jobs that are out there ... after all, they're unemployed as well. Show us older folk that these jobs are really available and can be productive. If no jobs are being "stolen", go and get hired.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Then they should prove it by taking the jobs that are out there ... after all, they're unemployed as well. Show us older folk that these jobs are really available and can be productive. If no jobs are being "stolen", go and get hired.

Again, they're not the ones complaining that immigrants are stealing jobs. So why should they take a job they don't want? I think the liberal's position is generally that immigration has a positive effect on our economy.

On a bit of a tangent, your comment raises an interesting question: are more or fewer liberals unemployed compared to the general population? I suspect fewer, just because liberalism correlates with higher levels of education which tends to correspond to lower unemployment rates. But that's just a guess.

 

[WildCat]

Again, they're not the ones complaining that immigrants are stealing jobs.

It's not that illegal (did you forget that word Joe?) immigrants are taking the low-skill jobs, it's that they're driving down the wage scale.

The OP is an excellent example - why do those difficult and dangerous jobs pay so poorly? Because they are dominated by impoverished illegal workers from impoverished nations who are so desperate they will work for such poor wages. So what do low-skilled legal workers do? They sit at home and collect government assistance rather than work for wages that don't make them better off than the government assistance does.

There is no shortage of unskilled labor in this country, even today only ~70% of American kids manage to get a high school diploma, let alone a college degree. Their already poor job outlook is made even worse by illegal immigrants driving down wages and benefits in the only jobs they're qualified for.

Those jobs would have to pay higher wages (these are not jobs that can be exported after all) to attract legal workers, resulting in less need for government assistance to the poor and other social services.

It astounds me the UFW would draw such attention to their ineptness and complete inability to get even market wages for its membership, whereas most labor unions manage to negotiate higher than market wages for their membership.

In a rational market, someone laboring in the hot sun all day picking strawberries would command a higher wage than someone equally unskilled who spends all day in a climate-controlled building screwing Nut A to Bolt B. But the market is not rational, because it is undermined by illegal workers.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

"Come and get the jobs where we have driven the wages down to peanuts you can't possibly live on. We know you won't, and it'll make great copy!"

I bet the pro-immigration set will eat it up like catnip though.

 

[mumblethrax]

In a rational market, someone laboring in the hot sun all day picking strawberries would command a higher wage than someone equally unskilled who spends all day in a climate-controlled building screwing Nut A to Bolt B. But the market is not rational, because it is undermined by illegal workers.

It seems much more intuitive to say that the market isn't rational because it's been undermined by government protection of legal residents.

Markets don't care which flag you wave. Governments do.

 

[WildCat]

It seems much more intuitive to say that the market isn't rational because it's been undermined by government protection of legal residents.

Markets don't care which flag you wave. Governments do.

It's the duty of the government to protect their legal residents and their general welfare... what sort of bizarro world do you live in?

 

[WildCat]

"Come and get the jobs where we have driven the wages down to peanuts you can't possibly live on. We know you won't, and it'll make great copy!"

I bet the pro-immigration set will eat it up like catnip though.

I'm still waiting for Checkmite to explain why such difficult and dangerous work pays only $8/hr, and how this is good for the economy.

 

[marplots]

I vote status quo. I want cheap fruit and vegetables. So I can stay healthy while I refrain from any physical labor whatsoever.

Thank you illegal immigrant workers.

 

[WildCat]

I vote status quo. I want cheap fruit and vegetables. So I can stay healthy while I refrain from any physical labor whatsoever.

Thank you illegal immigrant workers.

People greatly overstate the effect labor costs have on the price of fresh vegetables. IIRC it's only 6% or so. I'd bet it's far less for fruit, which is more mechanized.

So you could triple wages, and that head of lettuce that sells for $1.39 sells for $1.64 instead. And less of your taxes will be needed for health care, housing, food stamps, and other government services. And more taxes will be collected from those workers as well as pumped back into the economy as their purchasing power increases. And that's just the start of the up side.

 

[mumblethrax]

It's the duty of the government to protect their legal residents and their general welfare... what sort of bizarro world do you live in?

I didn't say it wasn't.

I said that your identification of the problem (that the market isn't behaving rationally) is flatly wrong.

The market is doing exactly what we would expect it to--it's seeking economic equilibrium.

 

[mumblethrax]

So you could triple wages, and that head of lettuce that sells for $1.39 sells for $1.64 instead. And less of your taxes will be needed for health care, housing, food stamps, and other government services. And more taxes will be collected from those workers as well as pumped back into the economy as their purchasing power increases. And that's just the start of the up side.

...and then most of those jobs disappear because Chinese producers can still sell lettuce profitably at $1.39 a head.

 

[WildCat]

I didn't say it wasn't.

I said that your identification of the problem (that the market isn't behaving rationally) is flatly wrong.

The market is doing exactly what we would expect it to--it's seeking economic equilibrium.

No, it's not.

If I started selling cigarettes with no tax stamps for $2 in a booth outside 7-11, and 7-11 complained because no one was buying their cigarettes for $9, is that the "market seeking economic equilibrium"?

In both cases you are undercutting the market through illegal means.