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imaginary pedophile

bickerer

Critical Thinker
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
318
This article was in our local paper this morning. Now, granted, there may be more to this story than what has been reported, but it certainly sounds like the thought police have arrived, judging by the first two sentences alone.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2009/06/23/9895721-sun.html

I'm certainly NOT pro-pedophilia, but if you're going to start arresting people for imaginary scenarios, there are going to be a lot of authors and screenwriters crammed into that same jail cell. Where, exactly do you draw the line??
 
Where to draw the line? Where real children are actually harmed. Drawings, fiction stories, conversations, I could care less. And if it helps someone to fantasize instead of actually harming an actual child, I'm all for it.
 
Yeah that seems a bit extreme.

Granted, dude's creepy and a little twisted, but there's nothing criminal about imagining that sort of thing. No more so than imagining killing someone, or stealing something, or whatever. Like the OP says, what's next, locking up authors or artists?
 
Not sure what he was arrested for, what law he broke, but he plead to distribution of cp. There must be more to this story. A man can't be arrested for sharing thoughts.
 
Not sure what he was arrested for, what law he broke, but he plead to distribution of cp. There must be more to this story. A man can't be arrested for sharing thoughts.
Except that I think in some jurisdictions, fictional CP scenarios are considered CP. And of course there's always hate speech and presidential assassination speech. A man can, in fact, be arrested for sharing certain kinds of thoughts.
 
Some Dumbass: I suffered a miscarriage of justice because I fantasized about raping a child.

John Q. Public: YOU WANTED TO DO WHAT TO A CHILD!?!?

That's pretty much the size of it right there. It's like neo-nazis who get tripped up by hate-speech laws. Yes, they are technically a violation of the principles of democracy and rights and freedoms, and I personally am against these kinds of things, but no one is shedding any tears for the "victims".

Anti-death penalty activists in the United States have the same kind of problem when they protest the executions of people like Ted Bundy.
 
Yeah, and that's the problem here, and in other cases: separating the unjust law from the undesirable behavior.

Pedophilia is wrong.

Locking people up for things they've imagined doing to imaginary people is wrong.

Yet, anyone objecting to this guy's prosecution will be labeled pro-pedophilia, and will be vilified nearly as badly as this guy.

I'm not saying we have to support his fantasies, any more than we have to support skinheads' racist views. Both have a right to their opinions. And both have to respect the line between fantasy and reality. If a skinhead says generalities about a specific race, that's different than if they slander an individual based on their race, or incite people to violence over race. Likewise, if creepy dude wants to think about little kids while he touches himself, well...do it in private. If he wants to tell people (other adults) that it should be OK to molest children, he can do that too. (He's not required to agree with the law, just obey it.) If he tells people he wants to molest a specific child, then that's crossing the line. Likewise if he actually molests one.

Topics like this go slippery slope real fast, though. As if even discussing them is somehow endorsing the worst possible form of said activity.
 
The crimes related to having or distributing child porn exist to stop child abuse. Or at least they should. If no children are being harmed, there's no point in enforcing it just because it's creepy.

Actually I think making the content illegal is a stupid way to stop it, anyways. Once the information exists the crime has already happened. Distributing the information doesn't make the crime worse. Going after the consumer is an ineffective way to ban something. It doesn't even work for physical products like alcohol and drugs. Alcohol isn't creepy, I guess.
 
The crimes related to having or distributing child porn exist to stop child abuse. Or at least they should. If no children are being harmed, there's no point in enforcing it just because it's creepy.

Actually I think making the content illegal is a stupid way to stop it, anyways. Once the information exists the crime has already happened. Distributing the information doesn't make the crime worse. Going after the consumer is an ineffective way to ban something. It doesn't even work for physical products like alcohol and drugs. Alcohol isn't creepy, I guess.


Surely the demand for the "product" prompts the production?
 
The crimes related to having or distributing child porn exist to stop child abuse. Or at least they should. If no children are being harmed, there's no point in enforcing it just because it's creepy.

Actually I think making the content illegal is a stupid way to stop it, anyways. Once the information exists the crime has already happened. Distributing the information doesn't make the crime worse. Going after the consumer is an ineffective way to ban something. It doesn't even work for physical products like alcohol and drugs. Alcohol isn't creepy, I guess.

Well the idea is that you limit the creation of supply by punishing both that and the demand side. Yes, it clearly doesn't work for drugs, but there are different outside forces at work.

If I'm busted for pot possession, worst case scenario is jail time, but that's unlikely for a number of reasons. One thing is that number of people who smoke weed is huge, even though it's illegal, we would never have the money to aggressively target even any significant portion of pot users. At this point there's almost no social stigma, so it's even likely that a good number of police are sympathetic and think the laws are stupid.

With child pornography the social consequences to being caught can be basically the end of professional and social life. Police are far less likely to sympathize, you're targeting a much smaller group. The illegality of possessing child porn carries enough consequences that it unquestionably scares the crap out of at least some possible consumers rendering them inert.

If the ownership of child pornography were legal tomorrow, there would be an increased demand, and producers would rise to fill it, which by definition results in more abuse. So, yes I do think the prohibition on child porn is useful.

What the man in the article produced, however, was not child pornography.
 
There actually was a case somewhere similar to this. It was on Neal Boortz website a few years ago where a man was on probation for having CP wrote a fantsy story about a fictional girl and himself. The story was discovered and the man went back to jail.
 
Some Dumbass: I suffered a miscarriage of justice because I fantasized about raping a child.

John Q. Public: YOU WANTED TO DO WHAT TO A CHILD!?!?

John Q. Public: Now, if you'll excuse me, I just rented "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" and really want to go watch it.
 
Dumbass.2: "I just gratified myself to a porn video."

John Q. Public: "Too much information ... couldn't care less."

Dumbass.2: "She looked just like your daughter."

John Q. Public: "YOU DID WHAT TO MY DAUGHTER?!!"
 
In other news, the Canadian government is demanding that Switzerland extradite the corpse of Vladimir Nabokov for trial.
 
People today are very adamant about drawing a line at child porn. It is instructive to note that 100 years ago the line was drawn at nudity, sex in general and mention or use of birth control, and any of these involving the mail system. In the US, of course.
 
People today are very adamant about drawing a line at child porn. It is instructive to note that 100 years ago the line was drawn at nudity, sex in general and mention or use of birth control, and any of these involving the mail system. In the US, of course.

It's not impossible to think that the world will have different priorities 100 years from now, but to equate the two is not really meaningful.

We have a scientific basis for evaluating the harm sexual exploitation causes to children. Compare this with a moral certainty that immodesty and masturbation are sins, they don't have the same roots.

We also now draw the line at writing that explicitly incites violence whereas hundreds of years ago they drew the line at writing that criticisized the king. 100 years ago abortion was illegal, now murder is still illegal.
 
Not sure what he was arrested for, what law he broke, but he plead to distribution of cp. There must be more to this story. A man can't be arrested for sharing thoughts.

Hard to tell what the facts are from that article. If he shared something like a story he wrote or pictures he drew, that would count as distribution under the Criminal Code. Writing stories or drawing pictures for his own personal use is constitutionally protected (See R. v Sharpe). Sharing them with others crosses the line into criminality. Just talking about it would not be criminal and would not count as distribution.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the criminalisation of the distribution of stories and drawings, but it is at least a defensible position. This isn't about criminalising the thoughts themselves.
 
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Pedophiles are just one of societies' current boogeymen, whether or not the individual would ever actually harm a child or watch actual child pornography. The mere fact that you have certain thoughts and desires makes you unsympathetic to the point where no one cares if your rights get stomped on and you get thrown in jail. Many will cheer.

AFAIK, I don't know any pedophiles, but I know people who've admitted to fantasy-rape fetishes and it doesn't bother me a bit. I doubt it would bother me if I knew people who had pedophile fantasies so long as they didn't have any real cp and didn't actually hurt children.
 
Pedophiles are just one of societies' current boogeymen, whether or not the individual would ever actually harm a child or watch actual child pornography. The mere fact that you have certain thoughts and desires makes you unsympathetic to the point where no one cares if your rights get stomped on and you get thrown in jail. Many will cheer.
Which is why we have a Charter of Rights, Courts to enforce it, and a clear precedent already set for protecting those thoughts and desires. This is an important mechanism to thwart the potential evils of majoritarianism.
 

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