I'm on my last warning at the library!!

[seayakin]

Also, if you had done that in my library I wouldn't have scolded you or "banned" you but would have taken your request for reclassification under consideration and asked you to refrain from moving books because then it becomes hard for people to find. (Book is classified at 130, someone looks it up in the catalog which indicate the book is at 130, but you have moved it to 900 and no one else knows this then the book is essentially lost, especially in a large library.)

 

[AvalonXQ]

Yeah, the OP is just wrong. Books aren't classified as non-fiction based on their veracity; they're classified as non-fiction based on the writing style and intent of the author. "Fact" and "fiction" are not antonyms in book classification -- fiction is storytelling, written with the understanding of the writer and the reader that the events never happened. Non-fiction books that are wrong are bad non-fiction books, not fiction books.
And the purpose of library classification is to make books easy to find, not to carry out some agenda. If I were looking for a story about a plucky psychic detective using her powers to solve crimes, I'd look in fiction. If I were looking for a book about a delusional woo-meister who thinks she really is a psychic detective, I'd look in non-fiction. Making books hard-to-find by bucking their correct classification is inappropriate, and the library is right to expect you to stop.

 

[Edges]

While I think the librarian was wrong to scream at you(in the "two wrongs don't make a right" sort of way) I don't think that either your initial behavior or handling of the resultant blow up were appropriate.

In this case, the librarian may have agreed with the conventional labeling of the books, but that in no way means that all the librarians do. However, it is their job to place the books in the way that they are classified, no matter what they think about them. This cuts both ways, because while it means they have to put paranormal books that were published as non-fiction in that section, they must also put science books in the non-fiction, even if they think that things like evolution aren't real.

What you were doing was also pointless. If I come across a book in the fiction section that was labeled as non-fiction, I'd simply assume that someone put in the wrong place. Moving the books does nothing to "reclassify" them and really doesn't get your point across. I note from your description that the librarian had to ask you why you were moving them. What, then, did you think you were accomplishing except making extra work for the librarians who may or may not have agreed with your assessments?

If you disagree with how a book is classified, write to the publisher. Don't dick around with a group of people who had no input into how the book would be labeled.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Yeah me too, my local WHSmiths won't let me in without an escort. I'm a 'Guerilla Book Re-classifier'. I found Shermer and Randi in the 'Spiritual' section at WHSmiths, soon moved though.

I'll not stop, no freakin way. Keep an eye out for a portly, goateed Welshbloke on the news as I'm carted off by 'The Man' for Bookshop and Library offences.

I applaud your zeal but share others' concern as to the correctness of the tactics.

Well worth putting that energy into challenging the classification though (I'd do it but I have 4 kids and my wife is Head of Governors) or perhaps trying to persuade the library to subdivide the section that has that classification - they may shy away from labelling it 'Woo' as we'd like but they may be amenable to 'Supernatural'. You could even argue that that would help the Woo lovers as they won't accidentally soil their eye-balls on any nasty science stuff.

If you're anywhere near my part of our green and pleasant land (Neef! Neef! Neef!) then I'd happily support your efforts...not that I use the library, I like to buy books....

 

[Kogloron]

* Safe-Keeper;6066671 reads OP's Wall of Text.

I have to say I agree with Lothian -- first of all, entertaining as your stunt might be, these kinds of books are non-fiction, and reclassifying them doesn't do anything but create more work for the staff and damage their perception of your stance (scepticism).

I like to work analogies because it gives a clearer image to a broader audience, so here is my exaggeration which in essence is exactly the same situation.
How would you react if you brought up to a librarian that they had many Star Wars novels in the science non-fiction section; and their response was to became very defensive and insisted that they had once met a Jedi (Yes i capitolized the J) and therefore those books are in the right place?

I personally would be annoyed and do something very similar to what the OP did. I support the OP as well.

I'd like to hear from a librarian, how much work is it to reclassify a book? Would you do it if you found Star Wars novels in the non-fiction science area?

 

[AvalonXQ]

How would you react if you brought up to a librarian that they had many Star Wars novels in the science non-fiction section; and their response was to became very defensive and insisted that they had once met a Jedi (Yes i capitolized the J) and therefore those books are in the right place?

By showing them that the books are written as fiction, and properly classified, both under the Dewey and Congressional classification systems, as fiction.
In this particular case I would also note that I, too, am familiar with the Jedi Temple and have friends that are adherents to the real-world Jedi religion, but that there's a difference between books on become Jedi in the modern world (which would be non-fiction) and books about the characters in the Star Wars universe (which would be fiction). If possible I would recommend one of the books on the Jedi philosophy if the librarian wanted a non-fiction book on Jedi in the library. The Star Wars books don't qualify.

 

[seayakin]

I like to work analogies because it gives a clearer image to a broader audience, so here is my exaggeration which in essence is exactly the same situation.
How would you react if you brought up to a librarian that they had many Star Wars novels in the science non-fiction section; and their response was to became very defensive and insisted that they had once met a Jedi (Yes i capitolized the J) and therefore those books are in the right place?

I personally would be annoyed and do something very similar to what the OP did. I support the OP as well.

I'd like to hear from a librarian, how much work is it to reclassify a book? Would you do it if you found Star Wars novels in the non-fiction science area?

Any single book does not take long to reclassify. However, AvolonXQ explained the system well when he wrote

Books aren't classified as non-fiction based on their veracity; they're classified as non-fiction based on the writing style and intent of the author. "Fact" and "fiction" are not antonyms in book classification -- fiction is storytelling, written with the understanding of the writer and the reader that the events never happened. Non-fiction books that are wrong are bad non-fiction books, not fiction books.

Similarly, the "Protocols of Zion" are not classified as fiction because the intent of the writers was to present them as truth. This is not a value judgment about the veracity of the "Protocols of Zion" but a means of organizing information in a logical way that is consistent and predictable.

 

[Edges]

I like to work analogies because it gives a clearer image to a broader audience, so here is my exaggeration which in essence is exactly the same situation.
How would you react if you brought up to a librarian that they had many Star Wars novels in the science non-fiction section; and their response was to became very defensive and insisted that they had once met a Jedi (Yes i capitolized the J) and therefore those books are in the right place?

I personally would be annoyed and do something very similar to what the OP did. I support the OP as well.

Your analogy doesn't work to support the OP for two reasons.

1. Star Wars books were written as fiction. The writers of the books did not intend them to be considered anything but made-up stories and the publishers labeled them as fiction based on this. As AvalonXQ pointed out, it is the intention of the author, not the rightness or wrongness of the facts that determine whether a book will be labeled fiction or non.

2. The OP admits that s/he did not take the issue up with the librarians. S/he simply moved the books every week, without telling anybody that s/he was doing it or why. It took a librarian approaching him/her before s/he pointed out that s/he believed the books were in the wrong section.

If your scenario happened, moving the books every week would still be the wrong way to handle the situation. For one thing, the books would be moved back to the non-fiction section because moving the books does absolutely nothing to reclassify them. They would still be labeled non-fiction and that is the real issue, not where they are sitting in the library. The kind of person who might believe that Star Wars is non-fiction would think that it was improperly shelved because it is labeled on the book and in the catalog as being non-fiction.

There are many better ways to deal with that issue than moving the books without telling anyone, one of which you mention: bringing up the issue with the librarians. That would have been the first step, to be followed by taking the issue farther up the chain.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I'd like to hear from a librarian, how much work is it to reclassify a book? Would you do it if you found Star Wars novels in the non-fiction science area?

Being that I am a former volunteer library assistant...

Books can't just be moved from one shelf to another. They're coded so that they're supposed to be easy to find for visitors and staff. If, for example, you're looking for book 1421, you'd expect to find it in shelf 14, in the immediate vicinity of 1420 and 1422. If some guy came about and told you that oh, he wanted to make your job a little easier and moved it to the pleasant company of 919 and 920... you'd get upset no matter how valid the move.

If, however, he decided to come up to my desk and tell me that Lord of the Rings had been filed under Cookbooks or Comics, I'd be grateful and all too happy to try to get the problem fixed.

Also, as has been pointed out, no matter how accurate a book is, if it's written as non-fiction, it's non-fiction. Books on psychics and the paranormal, ******** as they might be, are non-fiction if the author intends them to be.

 

[fleabeetle]

I find myself thoroughly in the Tanja / Lothian / Safe-Keeper / Edges camp, for those posters' various stated reasons. Furthermore, even in a situation of totally agreeing with the OP’s world-view and his passion to defend it (and I don’t thus totally agree); I would consider his “Guerrilla Book Re-Classifying”, a rude and arrogant way to behave on someone else’s “turf” – regardless of how foolish the “someone else” ‘s notions were thought to be.

Plus the factor that, like it or not, the perceivedly correct classification of books by subject-matter is (formal systems for classifying them, aside) a thing where varied individual opinions and convictions come much into play – as illustrated by the library confrontation between the OP and his adversaries, and parallels drawn therefrom.

Probably nearly everyone – not just sceptical rationalists, by any means -- has something in the book-classifying field, which truly gets their goat. Posters on the board “BigfootForums” -- strongly holding the opinion that Bigfoot is a fully-flesh-and-blood species of giant primate living in North America but stubbornly refusing to be discovered, catalogued and docketed by science -- occasionally express outright fury at finding books on this subject from their own cryptozoological angle, put into the “occult” or “New-Age” sections of bookshops or libraries...

 

[Ysidro]

Am I the only person here thinking that the OP comes across far too self righteous and smug, to put it very mildly? Telling people "you are a bunch of idiots" rarely has any educational value. I, for one, fully support the type of effort that Robert Lancaster is doing with Stop Sylvia - provide information, not judgement - as I think it is effective, but I find efforts like this really irritating.

Actually, I'll go as far as saying the OP is a dick. All he's doing is making more work for the already overworked, understaffed, and under paid librarians. No minds are being changed, except to change them into thinking "who the **** keeps messing with my stacks!?"

 

[LibraryLady]

Dear Welshdean,

Thank you so much for all the extra work we now have to do with less help than we have ever had before. Because of budget cuts, we now are unable to hire staff, and people keep retiring. However, half a staff is better than none, and they are all delighted to have to repeat work already done.

Thank you also from all of the people who will now not be able to find the books they need. Many people study the bible and Qu'ran for scholarly purposes, and many of them are agnostics and atheists. They have a lot of time on their hands and will be glad to use searching for books which have been hidden from them.

Finally, thank you from the tax payers who work hard for their money and don't have time to play tricks on public servants who also work hard for their money.

Yours sincerely,

LibraryLady

 

[Ladewig]

I agree with AvalonXQ, Edges and the others. The OP is not helpful.

 

[lionking]

I like your posts LL, but this reads as an appeal to emotion here. Are not some books incorrectly classified? Is the classification of books an exact science? I would not do what the OP does, but I understand his motives.

 

[Ysidro]

I like your posts LL, but this reads as an appeal to emotion here. Are not some books incorrectly classified? Is the classification of books an exact science? I would not do what the OP does, but I understand his motives.

It happens. It's not the OPs job to move books. Even if he tells the library where they are moved and why, it's NOT HIS JOB. It is his job as a good citizen and library patron to bring improperly classified books to the libraries attention. It helps if he realizes he's wrong and "not true" does not mean "fiction".

 

[LibraryLady]

Does that mean we need to take Homer's works out of the Greek literature section and classify them as fiction instead? How about Greek and Roman mythology books? It was an appeal to emotion and I apologize for that, but I am honestly furious at the thought of people hiding books. My job is provide those books to all people no matter what the topic, and this just makes my and other people's jobs that much harder.

 

[Lothian]

I like your posts LL, but this reads as an appeal to emotion here. Are not some books incorrectly classified? Is the classification of books an exact science?

If books are incorrectly classified the answer is to get the classification changed. As pointed out by others, moving them without changing the classification just makes more work the librarians and frustrates lenders.

 

[lionking]

Does that mean we need to take Homer's works out of the Greek literature section and classify them as fiction instead? How about Greek and Roman mythology books? It was an appeal to emotion and I apologize for that, but I am honestly furious at the thought of people hiding books. My job is provide those books to all people no matter what the topic, and this just makes my and other people's jobs that much harder.

Sure I understand, but do you also understand the fury of people who see woo classified as non-fiction? As I said earlier, I don't do what the OP did, but I do point out incorrect classification to bookshops (not the same I know) and understand his or hers motives.

 

[Damien Evans]

By showing them that the books are written as fiction, and properly classified, both under the Dewey and Congressional classification systems, as fiction.
In this particular case I would also note that I, too, am familiar with the Jedi Temple and have friends that are adherents to the real-world Jedi religion, but that there's a difference between books on become Jedi in the modern world (which would be non-fiction) and books about the characters in the Star Wars universe (which would be fiction). If possible I would recommend one of the books on the Jedi philosophy if the librarian wanted a non-fiction book on Jedi in the library. The Star Wars books don't qualify.

Actually, they could go under the 800s as literature.

 

[sthomson]

I like your posts LL, but this reads as an appeal to emotion here. Are not some books incorrectly classified? Is the classification of books an exact science? I would not do what the OP does, but I understand his motives.

If a book is incorrectly classified, there is a procedure to follow to get it correctly classified. This procedure is NOT "Secretly re-shelve the books without notifying anyone, and then get upset when you are admonished by the person who is responsible for making sure that books are properly shelved and easy to access."

Libraries are not authoritarian regimes that must be subversively undermined. They are community resources that respond to the needs of the community.

Regardless, books on dream interpretation or ghost hunting are non-fiction.

Note that reporting the beliefs of others in a non-fiction format is not necessarily an endorsement of the ultimate veracity of those beliefs, it is simply saying that it is true that people believe that (for such topics as mythology, religion).